[Brian M]

I have been having some oil pan issues recently. When I first installed the motor the oil pan hit the crossmember, and cracked a weld along the bottom. I pulled the motor out, got the pan off and brazed it. Put it back in and the flexing of the bottom of the pan cracked the braze and started leaking all over again.

My question is how can I safely flush the oil pan in order to weld it on the car? Taking the motor out again is not an option, as I can't take any more time off to do it.

 

[GregP]

welding it on the car is not gonna work, oil will seep into the weld and it will just crack again, no matter how much you flush the pan.

Try grinding it clean and using jb weld.

Also, you might consider buying a new pan, as they are extremely cheap when compared to the pain in the ass of having one crack.


Greg

 

[My427stang]

Greg is 100% right, I have a 20 year old "tan line" to prove it.

When I was about 18, I tried to weld a cracked Camaro oil pan. As Greg said, oil flows once it gets warm and you cant weld it.

My great idea was to pull (I was 1

the drain plug and heat the pan to get all the oil to move away from the crack

BANG, it flashed and my arm looked like BBQ chicken up to the sleeve

The other mechanic at the shop pulled the pan and fixed it the right way while I was healing

Try Epoxy if you cant get the pan off, welding wont cut it, epoxy probably wont either, but it might buy a little time if you can get it real clean

 

[Brian M]

This is a milodon deep pan, so its kinda pricey to replace. Also the crossmember is not removable, so remoing the oil pan requires removal of the engine, which I don't have the time to do again.

What kind of Epoxy would work well for this? I had jbweld on it before and it didn't work too well, still dripped a bit.

Could I possible fill it up with water to get the oil away from the crack?

 

[mavman]

You can't weld water either. Plus, the oil will just float on the top...and chances are it can flash there too. To add to that, why would you want fo fill an engine with water??

 

[GregP]

Try the JB weld, it is cheap and easy, and if it doesn't work you aren't out anything.

I bet it buys you some time until you can get the pan off and have it TIG welded. MIG or brazing won't get the job done, IMHO.

Greg

 

[f100cleveland]

What about the gas tank leak fixing compound? That stuff will work without even draining all the gas out. Maybe oil reacts differently than gas, but its worth a shot.

 

[My427stang]

You know, here is my real advice. Maybe walk away for a while, certainly no bad intent, I have to do that sometimes too, however, epoxy is somewhat of a hack too.

The motor can be out in an afternoon, if you dont have time, maybe let the car sit. Once the pan is off, any good welder can fix it, and you are done

Just my opinion, but if you "want it bad" thats the way you'll get it...bad LOL

 

[fnracing]

mig mig mig. Done it once and it held for 3 years before I got rid of the car. To me knowledge, it's still holding. Drain the oil first. Tack the crack a bit at a time. Yes it might flash but if you vent it out the top, less chance of a flash. Just a thought..

 

[FEandGoingBroke]

A lot smaller chance of a flash with a mig than brazing!

Slow and slower and lot's of cooling between.... Maybe

 

[ujt389]

I would try epoxy first, but if you want it done the right way you should really just pull the pan. Why not just lift the engine a few inches and take the pan off? MIG welding should be strong enough as long as you have a compitent welder.

 

[71hotrodpinto]

Its not a milodon pan,but maybe this might interest you. Im guessing you have a 351c.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Oil-Pan-Ford-351C-7-Quart-Front-Sump-Chrome_W0QQitemZ8058834128QQcategoryZ38657QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
If you did weld it again, id slot the crack and get a peice of sheet metal and cover the crack by at least 1/4 to 3/8 on all sides. Then have it tig welded by a professional. It would last forever and probably be cheaper than another milodon pan. @ $220.

 

[Brian M]

Cant lift the motor high enough to take the pan off, deep sump and all. I would take the motor out but I really dont have the time for that, I only have an hour here or there now. After letting it drain for a while, the problem was the bottom of the pan flexing causing the braze to crack.

Here are the steps I am going to try:

1st, set my oxy-mapp torch to be a very hot flame and re-flow the braze that has cracked. That should seal it back up. Then use some jbweld and put a brace along the bottom of the pan to keep it from flexing anymore so it wont break again. To prevent any nasty booms, I will be venting the pan with my small compressor in the breather. Its a very low flow compressor so it wont be able to get more than a few psi on the pan, but will venilate things pretty well.

If that doesnt work, then I will grind the brazing off and attempt to mig-weld it.

If that still doesn't work, then I will see how I can get it off. I am starting a new job soon and wont have lots of free time at all.

 

[71hotrodpinto]

I really have to advise against rewelding with it on the car, I fear for your saftey. If it doesnt explode at the crack right in your face as your heating it up , it might explode up and then cause more damage internaly like blowout your oil pan gasket etc. If it doesnt explode, something might catch on fire. Im just grasping at straws here but id really really advise against this.
OIL + FIRE = BAD

As a last resort drain the oil use some 60 or 36 grit paper on a angle grinder or the like, and some acetone or brake clean ( not carb clean) to clean the outside. Then use some jb weld to "glue" a small patch of sheet metal over the crack. THEN "seal" the patch around the edges with some more jb weld. If the crack is not on a flat surface you can gently shape it with a hammer till its approximate.
Im almost positve that it will seal IF you get the surface ROUGH and CLEAN. And do it when its warm outside. if its cold it will take forever to dry and it will probably run all over the place.

 

[eliteman76]

On 2006-05-08 21:02, 71hotrodpinto wrote:

OIL + FIRE = BAD

As a last resort drain the oil use some 60 or 36 grit paper on a angle grinder or the like, and some acetone or brake clean ( not carb clean) to clean the outside. Then use some jb weld to "glue" a small patch of sheet metal over the crack. THEN "seal" the patch around the edges with some more jb weld. If the crack is not on a flat surface you can gently shape it with a hammer till its approximate.
Im almost positve that it will seal IF you get the surface ROUGH and CLEAN. And do it when its warm outside. if its cold it will take forever to dry and it will probably run all over the place.

I second this approach, sounds like you have backed youself in a corner. Been there broke on it...we only reserve the car fires for the bow tie boys, ok?!? LOL
No one likes to hack stuff, but sometimes you have to do something to get by.
I would degrease the pan spotless, grind the pan with a flap wheel on a grinder, clean the area to bare metal, and then JB weld a patch on it. If you can, get a clamp from a hardware store, and use it to keep pressure on the patch while the jbweld cures. As a last idea, take and use some copper seal gasket maker {in the squeeze tube} and maybe lay a bead around the ouside edges...probably won't be the beauty contect winner, but it sounds like you don't have a prom queen virgin, either.
Just trying to help.

If you proceed with the braze method, do it outside on the driveway, and have atleast some way to put the fire out, like an extinguisher and a couple boxes of baking soda and worse case a garden hose.
Garden hoses work wonders when welding on a roof skin and setting insulation on fire...

 

[Brian M]

Just an update, looks like it is fixed.

I let it drain for 4 days, and then used a spraybottle in the drain hole to put in some simple green/water mix. I then took off the breather and stuck in my tankless air compressor to make sure fumes didn't build up inside the engine. After I got it brazed, let it cool, I ran a quart through without the drain plug in to try and flush out as much crap as possible.

After that was all done, I covered the braze with black RTV to seal any oozing that might happen from the contaminated joint. Then I jb-welded two 1/16" x 1" straps across the bottom of the oil pan. The flexing was what was causing it to break. After that was done, filled it up with oil and have been driving around today with it. No problems as of yet.

No major fires, I had one drop of very hot liquid burn a finger and that was about it. I can no longer flex the bottom of the pan by pushing on it anymore so I think that is taken care of. Now to wait and see what happens.

 

[FEandGoingBroke]

You may not be able to flex it anymore but the pan weighs 200 lbs now... he he he he heeeeee.....

Why did your pan flex in the first place? I've never been able to flex any oil pan on the bottom... A deep old FE truck oul pan will have a littel give on the sides but not near the bottom....

FE

 

[Brian M]

Its a Milodon 8 quart, which hapens to be very thin sheet metal. The bottom is basically just a square bit of sheetmetal.

Here is the pan: http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=MIL%2D30927&N=115&autoview=sku

 

[dacofa]

You could have pulled the engine by now and taken it off. Do it right or do it again. Besides is the risk of blowing your engine up and maybe yourself worth all these shortcut ideas?

 

[Brian M]

I could have pulled my engine out? I did all of this in an hour and a half in one day, the fact that it took me 5 days to get to it is a testament to the lack of time that I have. Who do you know that can take an engine out, take the oil pan off, have it welded, and put it all back together in an hour and a half?

I consider doing it right if it works for me. I have drove it over 20 miles now with this in place and it has no signs of leaking at all.