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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
This post comes after visiting the MPG website.
They ran reverse cooling on there engine masters challenge engine. They ran reverse cooling that goes through the rear of the heads first and then out the block side freeze plugs,then to the radiator (occording to the picture on the website.
They mentioned that theyd have a kit for fords by dec 04 but they make no mention of it on there website in the products page.
I thought of doing it on my car. I was planning to go in through the rear of the heads and then out the block from the water pump ports.
Im already using a remote pump and an12 lines and fittings. for the water system. so just re-routing is the issue and making some freeze plug adapters that fit the lines.
Any thoughts?



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71 Pinto
5.0 Roller block
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'68 302 Iron port polished heads.
Mod Must II headers.
Edelb Rpm Airgap
Holley 570
Msd dist ,Crane HI6 igntion
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<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: 71hotrodpinto on 2/23/06 10:24am ]</font>
 

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Same principle of the Chevy LT1 engines. And they weren't all that special.

But, if you can do it, go for it and keep us updated. Basically you'll want to reverse the flow. In the manifold, out the block. Simple. Or, you could just fill the block with grout and run water through the heads only..just like I do. Not recommended for street use that way though.
 

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What, are you bored? What’s the purpose? If it is not making tons of HP why bother? I’m sure you can make coolant flow in all kids of directions if you have the time and the engine on a stand. A lot more restrictive when you have to work within the confines of an engine compartment. Got pictures?
How about high compression and water injection, now that would be a project. Or twin turbos, propane injection, rocket boosters, hydrogen powered as some other options? Reverse water flow? I do not get it?
Ras Daniel
 

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Agreed, I dont see it being worth it. Lots of better things to spend time on, but thats just my opinion. Porting the water passages to allow more flow, now that might be something I would try.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Ok the reason why? because im running a radiator that just barely fits the car. I have 2 10in fans pulling, and an electric csr remote mount pump but not sure if thats enough cooling.
SOOO I was looking for a better way to cool the engine down in the first place.
Reverse cooling is supposed to cool the heads better and first so that it staves off detonation.And since im running iron heads and might have to use the cheaper gas i was considering this.

On another note I really dont appreciate the "WHY BOTHER?" attitudes.
If you dont have a constructive opinon dont bother posting a reply.
thanks

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71 Pinto
5.0 Roller block
B303 , 1.7 roller rockers, Crane beehive springs.
'68 302 Iron port polished heads.
Mod Must II headers.
Edelb Rpm Airgap
Holley 570
Msd dist ,Crane HI6 igntion
Bla Bla Bla
The money pit, "So... when will it be done?"

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: 71hotrodpinto on 2/23/06 2:00pm ]</font>
 

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Everyone is entitled to their opinion, just as you were entitled to ask a question.

If it was such a good idea manufacturers would have done it years ago.

Ok, so give me a tongue lashing.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Yah I have the same temp gauge. There more bulky wiring wise but they are more accurate, yes. I ended up with the zirgo 10 inchers. Sposed to be 1500 cfm a piece but you know manufactures and thier claims.
I havent tested anything yet. Im just looking for a "solution" for somethign im not sure will happen yet so im prepared for a "plan B".
Like i was mentioning the main issue is that reverse cooling staves off detonation because the cooler heads.
I was actually hoping to find out someone that tried it out and found that it didnt work or that it wasnt worth the trouble.
 

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You won't cure a cooling problem by reversing water flow... sure the heads might be slightly cooler, but the block will be hotter, which will cause the pistons to run hotter. Remember, heat transfer is proportional to the difference in temperature, so if you make the head cooler, it will soak up more heat OUT of the combustion process... and heat IN the combustion process is what makes power! And you're still generating the same amount of heat, which means if your radiator isn't sufficient for dumping the heat now, it still won't be after you reverse the water flow. If you're worried about detonation, your time would be better spent reshaping the chambers and paying close attention to quench rather than trying to cool the heads another 5-10 degrees, that just won't help. Also, have you thought about air getting trapped in the heads? With coolant flow from bottom to top, air can be forced out the top of the engine so it's always full of water. Reverse the flow, and you can end up with air pockets trapped up top that can't escape because you're forcing water into the only place it can exit. I really think you would be hurting more than helping... if you have too much heat then you need to get rid of it... changing the water flow will only change the way it collects heat, not disippates it.

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<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Motorhead on 2/23/06 11:45pm ]</font>
 

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Lemme throw something else at ya, and you may already have this covered - so forgive my ignorance, but don't mount the electric fans directly on the radiator. Build a shroud and space them at least a 1/2 to 3/4 away from the core so it will pull air through the entire core
 

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Another thing to add to what Motorhead stated: Most will take for granted that when you install a higher deck engine into a chassis not designed for it that air won't get trapped in the heads and lead to hot spots and detonation. You must provide a degassing point or radiator fill point that is higher than the highest part off the engine so that all air can escape from the coolant passages in the heads. This was true for the 94-95 5.0's, 94-up 3.8's and the 95 Cobra R, mainly due to radiator position and sloping hood.
 

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Most interesting thread I have read in a while, thanks for starting.

I agree, the naysayers should keep their thoughts to themselves.
You agree , thats OK . think of why the OP ask the question . .looking for how great he will be for doing it and a pat on the back .????? who knows .. He did ask for thoughts and didnt say ONLY GOOD ones . then bitchs about the WHY? Why ask then ? do it and you get the answer your looking for .forgot , this is 4 year old thread . what was the outcome of the modified cooling system ?
 

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There are some potential benifits to using reverse cooling.
1. the engine heats more uniformly
2. higher combustion temps and pressures are possible
3. better control of "hot spot" prevention

There are some disadvantages too though:
1. any air in the system can be disastrous
2. modifications to cooling systems can be complex

The most successful systems use a different coolant - propylene not ethylene glycol. This allowed higher coolant temps at the same pressure keeping gaskets the same (no exotic materials needed). The main reason it is not widely used is the air contamination problem. You must have a purge tank higher than any other point of the cooling system to remove all the air in the system. This also requires a recovery tank that must always have coolant in it.
Why is air so bad? it is nearly impossible to force air DOWN through the engines cooling system so what happened in the testing was that air got trapped and caused localized over-heating (hot spots) which cause detonation and failure of the engine. Once the problems were sorted out and the higher temp coolant was used it was found that while there were signifigant gains in efficiency you could get the same gains by using the higher temp coolant in the conventional systems. You just had to get used to seeing "normal" temps of over 250F.
Ford decided that people would not respond well to the maintenance needed and the higher temps involved.
You still need a cooling system that will get rid of the same amount of heat as what the engine produces - at higher temps you can use a smaller radiator to do it because as temps rise heat transfer increases.

As I studied this, years ago, I was all for it - until I found out that you could get similar effects just running the propylene glycol and higher temps with the standard cooling system. It seems the higher temp allowed by the new coolant was where most of the improvements were.
 

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71hotrodpinto - You are right that the concept does work, and I have seen a number of converted systems on high-HP setups. The primary benefit in those applications was for cooling the valves more than the chamber for anti-knock, although that is also a potential benefit. What at least one poster is saying however, is that your limiting factor is the capacity of your radiator, so although the concept is good, your system is still too small to cool the engine as a whole. If you want to try it, that's great, but too small is too small.

I have seen systems like you described used in EM, and also ones that simply flow into the front and rear manifold crossovers (blocked thermostat outlet), and out the WP ports on the timing cover instead of the core plugs for less plumbing. I don't know if the flow is as even though.

David
 

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Ford's latest thinking about coolant systems.

NASCAR Race Engines - Ford FR9 - Hot Rod Magazine

A passage runs down the length of each side of the Ford block, and through the freeze-plug holes you can see the inlets that allow water to run from the passage to the water jacket designed to pull heat away from the cylinder walls. This system ensures that each cylinder receives coolant that is the same temperature.
 

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Yes, but after it flows around the cylinder it flows to the head. It is still "normal" flow from the block first and then to the head. It is just directed to an individual cylinder and combustion chamber rather than going through all of them from front to back and back to front.
 
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