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Discussion Starter #1
Be forewarned...

VIN: 6J6OQ162021

Guy on eBay is selling this VIN and title for the express purpose of rebodying it. Buyer's beware when this car resurfaces.

It has been reported to eBay.

Paul

1969 R-Code, 4-Speed, Drag-Pack Cobra Fastback Project
1967 Mercury Commuter Wagon w/mild 429

My Car Restoration Projects
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Sure is. That's why I also sent the info to the Washington State State Police.

The part that amazes me is eBay has done nothing with this. I called them just after I filled the report. I informed the guy on the other end of the line that this was a violation of eBay policy, as well a felony.

That was over 16 hours ago...
 

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Being on this subject I got a few titles of old cars that I took apart and scraped. I should tear the titles up huh?
 

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No, keep them if you like. It is only illegal for criminal purposes. Titles and plates are sold and traded all the time. Just don't try to steal a car and hide it with a legit plate and title. You'll spend twice as long enjoying prison.

David
 

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Be forewarned...

VIN: 6J6OQ162021

Guy on eBay is selling this VIN and title for the express purpose of re bodying it. Buyer's beware when this car resurfaces.
http://mycarrestorationprojects.blogspot.com/
If you want to be technical re-bodying isn't illegal if it's legit work needed to repair the vehicle. It's only illegal if it's done for nefarious purposes.

There's lots of re-bodied Shelby's, Ferrari's, and other exotic cars out there. Most of them have very few of their original bits & pieces.

Section 511, subsection a, b, c - read here.
 

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If you want to be technical re-bodying isn't illegal if it's legit work needed to repair the vehicle. It's only illegal if it's done for nefarious purposes.

There's lots of re-bodied Shelby's, Ferrari's, and other exotic cars out there. Most of them have very few of their original bits & pieces.

Section 511, subsection a, b, c - read here.
Because it is done, doesn't necessarily make it legal. The laws vary state-by-state as to what is legal.

For example:

Missouri:

The court in State v. Smith, 972 S.W.2d 476, 107 A.L.R.5th 791 (Mo. Ct. App. W.D. 1998), held that the plain language of Mo. Rev. Stat. §§ 301.390.1, 301.390.6 (1994) does not require criminal intent when selling a vehicle with an altered or removed VIN. The statute's language prohibits a person from selling or offering for sale, or knowingly having the custody or possession of a motor vehicle with an altered or removed VIN. The court said that the legislature clearly and deliberately wrote the statute so that "knowingly" refers only to the crime of custody or possession, and not to the crime of selling or offering for sale. The requirement that the defendant know the VIN was altered or removed in order to be convicted thus applies only to the crime of custody or possession, and not to the crime of sale.
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Legality aside, its a wholly dishonest practice when a vehicle is sold without disclosing the fact that the vehicle has been rebodied. If I change or alter my fingerprints it doesn't change who I am and changing out VIN tags doesn't transform one vehicle into another.

Clearly the intent of this eBay seller is to "... change your 1966 galaxie or LTD 4 door hard top car into a 1966 428 Q code LTD which is very rare."

Maryland:

In interpreting Md. Ann. Code art. 66 1/2, § 73 (1957), which prohibits a person from knowingly possessing or selling a vehicle or vehicle part with an altered or removed VIN, for the purpose of concealing or misrepresenting the identity of the vehicle or vehicle part, the court in Greenway v. State, 8 Md. App. 194, 259 A.2d 89 (1969), concluded that "knowingly" as used in the statute means "having knowledge." A person thus may be found to have knowledge by evidence establishing that one has actual or direct knowledge of the VIN removal or alteration. For example, explained the court, actual knowledge is when one removes or alters the number personally, while direct knowledge is when one admits to knowing that the number has been removed or altered, and has no reasonable nonculpable explanation as to why it has been removed or altered.

And you might not want to hang on to those spare VIN tags in New York, either...

New York:

The court held in People v. Giese, 95 Misc. 2d 792, 408 N.Y.S.2d 693 (Sup 1978), order aff'd without published op, 68 A.D.2d 1019, 414 N.Y.S.2d 947 (2d Dep't 1979), that federal law (Federal Safety Act, 15 U.S.C.A. §§ 1381 et seq. (Repl.; see 49 U.S.C.A. §§ 30101 et seq.)) did not preempt N.Y. Penal Law § 170.70, which makes it illegal to possess a VIN that has been removed from a vehicle or vehicle part to which the VIN was affixed by the manufacturer in accordance with the provisions of the Federal Motor Vehicle and Information Cost Savings Act. The court noted that the promulgation of the safety standards cannot be said to be so pervasive of the area to prevent the state of New York from enacting and enforcing laws with respect to the illegal possession of VIN plates in order to reduce the incidence of motor vehicle theft. Consequently, the court held that such legislation was not in conflict with the purpose or language of the Federal Safety Act.

There is no mention of intent or purpose. Most states have laws of a similar nature. Those that do mention it don't require the vehicle to be stolen, only misrepresented.

Delaware:

In Tackett v. State, 416 A.2d 1225 (Del. 1980), the court held that two statutes: (1) the possession of a vehicle with a removed VIN (Del. Code Ann. tit. 21, § 6709); and (2) the possession of a vehicle with knowledge that the VIN is falsified with intent to misrepresent the identity (Del. Code Ann. tit. 21, § 6705(d)) were not unconstitutionally vague. The court noted that the standard for judging the certainty of a criminal statute is whether it is specific enough to give notice to a person of ordinary intelligence of the conduct prohibited. Consequently, the court found Del. Code Ann. tit. 21, § 6705(d) clearly comports with constitutional standards of specificity in that the statute unambiguously describes both the conduct prohibited and the requisite states of mind. The court also found that Del. Code Ann. tit. 21, § 6709 was not vague as applied to this case because the indictment charged that the defendant knew of the altered VINs; the defendant was in the auto repair business and a former employee of a major automaker, giving rise to a fair inference that he was familiar with confidential VINs; and the defendant's knowledge that the VINs had been altered was charged and proven.

There may be provisions in some states to allow this for restoration purposes, but you should definitely do your homework first. Here is one example with all of the provisions required to do a rebody legally in one state:

Classic Recreations Helps With VIN Issues | Miscellaneous Blog & Discussion at Mustang & Fords Magazine

It should be noted in this case the restoration shop was charged. The charges were eventually dropped and the law was changed to help prevent it from happening again, but there are very specific rules which have to be followed to permit the rebody legally. In the end, a title includes information that the vehicle is rebodied.

Paul

1969 R-Code, 4-Speed, Drag-Pack Cobra Fastback Project
1967 Mercury Commuter Wagon w/mild 429

My Car Restoration Projects
 

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WOW internet police! better make sure i cross my "T" and dot my "i"!!
 

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There was a big resto shop in California I believe that was raided several years ago and people were arrested for doing just that with Shelby Mustangs. I would bet it depends how much was changed.

I was thinking about a tilt front on my 65 Comet but the serial number is on the inner fender that would be cut off I won't do it for sure till I check with the Mississippi State Police!!!


If you want to be technical re-bodying isn't illegal if it's legit work needed to repair the vehicle. It's only illegal if it's done for nefarious purposes.

There's lots of re-bodied Shelby's, Ferrari's, and other exotic cars out there. Most of them have very few of their original bits & pieces.

Section 511, subsection a, b, c - read here.
 
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