[89Trooper]

I'm still having problems with this and need some opinions. It's a 331 with a 650cfm Edelbrock American Thunder carb. CR is about 9.2:1. Initial timing is 14° and total timing is 38° all in by 2500 RPM.

When the engine is totally cold:

I push the gas pedal to the floor 1 time to set the choke. I turn the key to the "on" position for a few seconds listening to the fuel pump run. When I turn the key to the "start" position, the starter engages and the engine almost starts instantly. I don't think it could start any faster. It runs at high idle until I blip the gas and it drops to normal idle.

When the engine is hot:

I turn the key to the "on" position for a few seconds and verify the fuel pump is running. I've tried not touching the gas pedal at all, pumping the gas 1 time, pumping it 2 times, pumping it 3 times, holding the gas pedal down half way, etc. No matter what I do, when I turn the key to the "start" position it tries to start 1 time but dies almost instantly. Then I have to let go of the key because the starter disengages the bendix. Then I turn the key to "start" again, and it has to crank, and crank, and crank... finally it fires up.

The things I know:

1. It's getting fuel as I can hear the pump running and my fuel gauge reads right around 6 psi.
2. The accelerator pump works, because I can see it spraying gas when I have the air cleaner off.

Please help! If any other info is needed, please let me know!

 

[mavman]

Every Edelbrock carb I've ever had does that. I think the fuel is percolating in the float bowls...actually, I know that is happening (on my cars anyway). I pulled the bowls on my old '74 Maverick once while at operating temp and you could literally see the fuel boiling.

 

[89Trooper]

I should add that when I say "hot", I don't just mean if I shut the engine off and try to restart it right away. This happens when I get gas, so the engine is off maybe 5 or so minutes. It also happens if the engine is off for 20 to 30 minutes. I don't know how long the engine would have to be off for it to start like it does after sitting over night.

As far as percolating... I wanted to get one of the 1/2" spacers to separate the carb from the direct heat of the intake, but due to my very limited hood-to-air cleaner clearance (1/4" ) there is no way I can use one at this time.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: 89Trooper on 4/30/06 10:20am ]</font>

 

[abecerra]

Use the spacer and get a low profile air cleaner. The Hi-Po air cleaner is pretty low.

 

[89Trooper]

I like my air cleaner, so I'll have to find a low-profile hood scoop, I guess.

Could it be timing? Too far advanced when the engine is hot, maybe?

 

[KIPK]

AS I READ YOUR QUESTION, I BELEIVE I MAY HAVE A SUGGESTION OR TWO. IT SOUNDS LIKE FUEL PURC AND
CARB NEEDLE VALVE CREEP. TRY A SWITCH IN YOUR FUEL CIRCUIT TO TURN OFF THE PUMP BEFORE SHUTTING THE ENGINE OFF. TURN OFF THE PUMP THEN WAIT FOR THE PRESSURE TO DROP TO 3 PSI THEN KILL THE ENGINE. UPON RESTART, TURN THE IGNITION AND PUMP ON BUT WAIT FOR FULL PRESSURE ON YOUR GAGE. CRANK THE ENGINE OVER AND GIVE IT SOME GAS. AS FOR PURCULATION, EDELBROK MAKE A SEPARATOR FOR THIS PROBLEM. IT IS .320 INCH THICK AND THER ARE TWO TYPES. HOPE THIS A HELP.

 

[pedal2themetal45]

HI KEN
I had a prob sort of like that and it wound up being I wasn't get full juce (voltage) to my coil and or my control box. It would start grate cold but warmed up it wouldn't start worth a dam... I noticed my control box was getting very hot. So I did some rewireing and it seams fine now.. hope this helps.
tim

 

[tonys10sec306]

did you check your starter?

 

[89Trooper]

Starter is brand new. But that would be a problem when cold, too.

It's a gear-reduction starter and cranks the engine over really good, it's just not firing (when hot).

Also, I have full voltage to the coil and to the MSD 6AL box (and good grounds).

 

[pedal2themetal45]

Well ken
it has to be one of the three.
Air
Fuel
or
spark
Maybe timming
Tim

 

[89Trooper]

That's what I figured... I have air and fuel, and compression, so could it be timing?

I think I'll start it the way it is (14° initial) and while it's warming up, I'll turn the timing back to 10°. If it does the same thing, I can pretty safely say it isn't timing. If it starts easier, then I'll try 12° for the heck of it.

Then I'll move on to the spacer.

P.S. Who is Ken?

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: 89Trooper on 5/2/06 4:03am ]</font>

 

[dbiscayne]

The engine will get hotter as soon as you shut it off before it starts to cool down, all that hot air is rising up to your hood and without an opening in the hood it's concentrated on your carb & air cleaner. Had the same problem on a previous car. The 3/8" thick insulated carb gasket helped, use it if you can, might have to ditch the air cleaner hold down stud & nut and use a screw if it's that close. I had a rally hood with fake scoops, opened them up and no more problems (they were only about an inch tall and 6 inches wide). Some black screen on the inside of the hood covering the scoops and you could barely tell they'd been opened up.

 

[bprigge]

My 600 Edel did that too. Sometimes it would blubber for 30 seconds or so after it finally started. I changed to a 650 dp this winter and the problem went away. Bruce

 

[FEandGoingBroke]

I'd vote for you to retard 2 or 3*... Might make a world of diffrence.... Also, right when it happens next get under the hood and check for spark with a tester plug. That box could be heating up and not sneding the spark in as efficiently as when it's cooler.


FE

 

[89Trooper]

I'll try that FE..

Also, the air cleaner nut doesn't come close to the hood, it's the front edge of the air cleaner itself.

As far as the heat being trapped under the hood around the carb, it does this with the hood open, too.

 

[1 Bad 88 GT]

On 2006-05-01 12:16, pedal2themetal45 wrote:
Well ken
it has to be one of the three.
Air
Fuel
or
spark
Maybe timming
Tim

Your confusing 89Trooper with someone else.

 

[pedal2themetal45]

Well most likely darn it but every body looks the same on on my PC. LOL .... guess I better stick with call signs...

I guess I spin too much

makes me dizzy

Tim

 

[mavman]

Did you ever get it figger'd out?

I still stick to my guns on this one. Edelbrock carbs are notorious for this...as are Carter AFBs and some webers. The bowls are RIGHT on top of the hot intake manifold, not isolated from the main body like on a Holley. When you shut it down, it gets hotter...expecially the intake. Why? Because when it's not running, there is no fuel and air moving through the intake and carb. When the fuel is atomized in the carb, it loses heat (basic theory of fluid dynamics) and cools the surrounding air and aluminum parts (intake, carb, intake valves, ports, head, piston tops....). I've seen my old 514" BBF Weiand intake get upwards of 270 degrees after I shut it down. That temp was recorded at the base of the runners, behind the water crossover. With the bowl position and design of the E carb, the fuel tends to boil after it sits for a few minutes. Both of my E carbs have done that...one on my old '84 GT and the other one on my old 514 in the blue '83 F100. I tried everything..insulators, different methods of shutting it off, starting procedures, everything I could think of. Nothing worked. A good insulator helped a lot, but didn't cure it. Even had a turbo blow-through 302 in my old '74 Maverick..tried the E carb (1405) and it did the exact same thing, only worse. Hot air from the compressor heated the carb, combine that with hot manifold and engine...and a super lean condition after sitting for a few minutes became a big problem. Just had to be sure to stay out of boost until everything went back to normal.

 

[jimmife]

My 62 ford galaxie 406 use to do that ,showed it to the owner of NAPA where I live one day he told me take off all three wires Battery(2) starter(1) he made me three 0 guage wires never did it again. this was new rebuilt motor just needed that good ground and Jolt to crank that beast. Just a thought.it would start cold fine.

 

[89Trooper]

It's absolutely not the starter. It turns the engine over fine cold, hot, and everywhere in between.

mavman - I haven't had a chance to look at it. I'm going to try the timing thing first, then maybe I'll check the floats for proper adjustment.