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i have a 65 289 with cam and my car is getting too hot. its getting over 210 and i feel that is way too hot. i put on a 6 blade fan and i want to get a bigger radiator. some people say get a shroud and it will make a difference. some people say an electric fan will solve my problems. one of my friends put a radiator from a 67 mustang and a waterpump. i was thinking of putting an aluminum radiator. i just wanna know if anybody can really recommend the aluminum radiators or if anyone thinks they are a waste of money. also any suggestions on running my mustang as cool as possible without spending too much money will be greatly valued
 

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Dont worry about making it to cool, thermo will take care of that. Alum radiator with electric fan, crossflow type of Rad. Check your lower hose also and make sure it isn't collapsing.
 

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if you have a fan mounted to water pump with no shroud. Get a shroud, will make a ton of difference. and their cheap.

Electric fan/aluminum radiator combo works well together, I have that on my 66. But its pricey.

67 radiators are a totally different shape and size than your 66. Would take some modification for it to work.
 

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Biggest aluminum radiator you can fit in the car and a 19 inch wide blade flex fan driven 50 % - 75% of crank speed . If you dont have a shroud get one or none of it will work .

Ive tried just about every electric fan on the market and I use a crank driven flex fan to keep my engine cool. Does that tell you anything?
 

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I agree, get a shroud.

I had the same problem and installed a 160 thermo with no luck. So I put my old ugly fan shroud back on and it worked like a champ, and my motor is a small cry from stock.
Don't bother with an electric fan and aluminum radiator unless your running +11 to 1 compression and you’re worried about looks vs. functionality.
 

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Electric fans are nice, they save a few horsepower, give you room in the compartment, keep you from worrying about timing light wires and slicing your hand open, and generally cool better than a flex fan.

Its a testament that they put them on most new cars (though the biggest part of that is that its hard to drive a fan off of a latitudinally mounted engine.
)


But they arent necessary, and a properly oriented and shrouded mechanical fan will work just fine. Flex doesn't even matter, the only purpose of that is to try and free up a little horsepower on the top end. Most of the bigger v8 trucks have giant clutch fans, because they simply have the potential to move more air - why? because you can use the whole engine to drive it, instead of a little electric motor.

It might cost you 20 HP, but they can cool just fine properly installed. I just happen to like the other features an electric can give you, and its harder to fabricate a custom radiator shroud than it is to buy an electric fan with one built in.


Aluminum radiators are similar - they aren't cheap in custom apps, but most of them have the capacity to cool a high performance V8 - with brass you have to check to make sure you're getting a big enough one. Not that brass wont cool just as well, (it's actually more thermally conductive than aluminum) but the aftermarket provides way more choices with aluminum than brass. Its easier now to manufacture an aluminum radiator on top of other things.

I think if you can find a 4-core brass radiator for your car, and get a shroud on a modern fan design, you will have no temperature problems.

If you want to go aluminum/electric, that will work just as well, but will either take some money or some fabrication, or a little of both.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: thekingofazle on 7/6/06 4:54am ]</font>
 

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nother thing is the front valance stops air flow. You could get the Shelby style to allow more air flow.
 

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you're never said what you have already other then a 6 blade fan with a 289. How many rows is your current radiator? Stock W/P and how modified is your engine? What type of exhaust system do you have? When is it heating up? Stop and go traffic or all the time?
 

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Electric fans work great on modern OEM engines that make less than 200 HP . Start getting much beyond that driving through city traffic on a HOT day then you are asking for problems unless you have a electric fan that is capable of putting out 15,000 cfm while your engine is pouring out 500+ HP. I believe that type of fan is called a "propeller" . Hook a 30 HP electric motor to a cessna prop and you'll have the equivalent cooling cpacity of a 19 inch flex fan inside a shroud.. Of course a 30 HP 12 VDC motor will weigh 400 lbs if you can even find one but dont let that stop you.

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438 inch Dart block Windsor, AFR 225 heads, 271/[email protected]" on 106 solid roller, 13:1 compression, Super Victor, crank trigger, 950 HP carb, external wet sump oiling, reverse manual C4, 4000 stall, 4.10 Dana 60, Nitrous. Street '68 Cougar. 315/60/15 MT's

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: mikeandnatasha on 7/10/06 4:18am ]</font>
 

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Guys, guys, 210 you shouldnt even be worried. check out 429 overheating in the all ford tech board. with 50/ 50 antifreeze & water & 16 lb cap boiling point goes up to 260 deg. Currently im running a 160 stat 50/50 anti/water
elec fan, alm, high flow high volume water pump, new hoses, 16 lb cap in stop & go it reaches 230 I dont like to see that but as long as doesnt go to 240-260 im really not worried once I get going again temp drops to about 190. Ive read up on the 160 stats & like I stated on the 429 overheating problem, the 160 causes overheating due to tha fact that the heat cannot dissapate due the coolant flowing so fast. you actually slow down coolant flow w/ a higher temp termostat, most stock apps call for a 192 deg stat.

I used to read mags where they favored the 160 now when reading they say the same thing I stated above , one user said my radiator wasnt big enough Im running summit 4 core
I would suggest trying a 180 see what it does im mean were only talking about 3.99 stat @ o'reillys plus.95 gasket & time & antifreeze

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: 427sidewinder on 7/10/06 8:54am ]</font>
 

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I don't think I was clear - I said you'd have to run a bigger radiator to cool an engine with a 160 degree thermostat than one with a 180 degree.

Thats because if you increase coolant temp - you transfer heat faster - a bigger radiator with cooler 160 coolant will cool the same as a smaller radiator with a 185 degree stat - the cooler the coolant is in the radiator, the bigger it has to be, say the laws of physics, in order to transfer enough heat away from the engine.

I'm not saying your radiator is too small too cool your engine - but if you drop the coolant temp - your radiator becomes less efficient, you just keep the enginer happier. So with a 180 your radiator works fine, but not with a 160.

On top of that - in traffic when your temperature climbs to 210, your thermostat is open all the time anyways, because your coolant is saturated and you're not getting enough heat transfer through the radiator. The higher temp thermo can just keep you from doing that if its stop and go and the little air you have moving can cool it down fast enough.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: thekingofazle on 7/10/06 9:18am ]</font>
 

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160 thermostat here . It stays at 160 all the time unless I'm drag racing on a VERY HOT day then it might see 200. My radiator is huge, my fan is big and I run a shroud. I also am putting over an average of 620 HP to the ground on the strip at 7000 rpm + . Thats a LOT of BTU production with 13:1 compression.

Thermostats i.e. ALL thermostats only serve to help an engine get to operating temperature quickly and maintain that temperature if the rest of the cooling system is up to the capability of the engine. If your cars and engines cooling sytem is properly sized to the task at hand then a 160 degree thermostat WILL maintain 160 degrees. A 180 will maintain 180 etc. If its not properly sized then no bandaiding will do a bit of good .

_________________
438 inch Dart block Windsor, AFR 225 heads, 271/[email protected]" on 106 solid roller, 13:1 compression, Super Victor, crank trigger, 950 HP carb, external wet sump oiling, reverse manual C4, 4000 stall, 4.10 Dana 60, Nitrous. Street '68 Cougar. 315/60/15 MT's

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: chipmechanic on 7/10/06 11:11am ]</font>

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: chipmechanic on 7/10/06 11:11am ]</font>
 

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Thermostats do not only serve to get an engine up to temperature.

They serve to make sure the coolant is hot enough once it enters the radiator to promote good heat transfer with the radiator. Remember, the hotter the coolant is when it comes out of the engine, the faster it will lose energy. In effect, you can get more efficiency out of a given rad/engine combo with a higher temp thermostat than with a lower one.

Think of the coolant temperature like water pressure in a hose - the higher the temperature, the faster heat can escape in a given time period (higher the pressure, the more water escapes in a given time period. )

So you can maximize efficiency by keeping the coolant hotter when it enters the radiator.
 

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Your'e only maximizing cooling efficiency by doing that. You are NOT making the engine run cooler. You are only increasing the amount of temperature change between inlet and outlet. Big deal if its still running at 230 degrees.

I'm not talking from theoretical delta T mumbo Jumbo. I make serious HP engines that run cool. If I take out the thermostat entirely they NEVER get to temp. My secret??? I run the pump SLOW as in 50 % of crank speed so it doesnt cavitate, I use a 160 thermstat and I use a big fan with a shroud and the biggest radiator I can shoehorn between the fram rails. And I DO NOT use an electric fan..
 

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?

Maximizing cooling efficiency would suggest to me that you are keeping the engine cooler... but maybe I'm just crazy. I'm not saying thermostats do not help the engine get up to temperature, and I'm not doubting your ability to build great engines.

Decreasing the temperature of the inlet water just tends to make an engine run cooler - otherwise nobody would bother to put a radiator on a car in the first place. Heating that 160 degree water to 180 degrees soaks up more energy than heating 150 degree water to 160.

Delta T mumbo jumbo is probably useless, just like all those other silly theoretical forms of science that are never right at predicting real world outcomes. Math? Who needs it.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: thekingofazle on 7/11/06 12:08am ]</font>
 

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Maximizing cooling "efficiency" just means that you have decreased the water temperature to a greater degree than you would have had it had been at a lower temp to begin with. If you have 260 degree water and you have 90 degree ambient air and the water that comes out of the radiator is 210 degrees then you have "lost" 50 degrees in the process. Now if your inlet water temp is 220 and your outlet temp is 200 then you "lost" 20 degrees in the process. The first example is more "efficient" but the water is still 10 degrees hotter. In a closed system where the water is allowed to circulate through a HUGE radiator with adequate airflow at a lower temperature to begin with it will never get to the higher temperature that DOES cause engine destruction. With a properly sized radiator , fan and shroud an engine will stay at the thermostats rated temperature no matter what it is . Problem is that people build engines that are VASTLY more efficient at producing power and subsequently heat without a corresponding increase in heat removal capacity. Installing a higher temperature thermostat will not make it run cooler. It will just mask the fact that the engines cooling system is not capable of keeping the temperature where the thermostat is trying to regulate it.


My engines stay cool because I build the whole system as a total package. and that includes a 160 degree thermsostat so that the water will get to its operating temperature, a 31X19 2 core aluminum high efficiency radiator that I had to cut the frame rails to shoehorn in , a SLOW moving pump and a big ass fan. AND A SHROUD !!!!

The problem with using "science" to apply to engine cooling is that people only use part of some scientific principles to make their points and ignore the rest....and then they wonder why their 2000 cfm electric fan isnt keeping their 500 HP thinwalled engine under 230 degrees in 98 degree stop and go traffic. But 230 is OK right????

My 13:1 438 stays at 160 in that same stop and go traffic . Guess I must be a ignernt dumbass .

http://users.adelphia.net/~mikeandnatasha/ron.JPG

_________________
438 inch Dart block Windsor, AFR 225 heads, 271/[email protected]" on 106 solid roller, 13:1 compression, Super Victor, crank trigger, 950 HP carb, external wet sump oiling, reverse manual C4, 4000 stall, 4.10 Dana 60, Nitrous. Street '68 Cougar. 315/60/15 MT's

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: mikeandnatasha on 7/11/06 2:42am ]</font>

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: mikeandnatasha on 7/11/06 2:43am ]</font>
 

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Never called you a dumbass - I know you know a lot about engines, and you've built and run more than I have and probably ever will.

But - operating an engine at 185 degrees as opposed to 160 is not going to kill it, in fact operating it at 210 instead of 160 won't either.

What I'm saying, is that within factory limitations, increasing your thermostat temperature can increase the amount of heat that you are actually removing from the engine - despite it operating at a higher temperature. Ideally, from a thermodynamic standpoint, you wouldn't even want to run any coolant - because all the heat you suck out of the cylinder is wasted energy that could be spend on the piston.

But we use metals, and they melt, deform, and destroy. I'm not saying run a 300 degree thermostat and your engine will cool like magic. But I am saying that a radiator sized to operate with an engine at 160 degrees will have to be bigger than one with an engine designed to operate at 185 or 210.

You have said it is in the combination - and I totally agree with that. Your engines are build to run cool, and they do.

But if you increase the thermostat temperature in a system that can handle it and is designed to operate in that temperature range, you will not hurt anything and can improve cooling.
 
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