Ford Muscle Cars Tech Forum banner

1 - 20 of 35 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
262 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
67 Fairlane manual drums.
so Ive recently have done a complete brake job on my Fairlane-shoes, MC, a wheel cylinder, new spring kits, full fluid flush, drums turned.
But the front right wheel is very grabby, so I get under it to adjust the star wheel, and low and behold- its already backed off all the way. the shoes aren't touching, but the wheel is very hard to turn by hand. I take it all apart, and see nothing rubbing, so I put it all back together, and still hard to turn.
So I just put the shoes on, no hard ware except I put on the shoe keepers(those small springs that hold the shoe to the backing plate) and the star wheel, and wheel cylinder so that the shoes would be sitting right where they should be.
I put the drum back on, and spins just fine, no drag.
So i put it all back together, torqued the spindle nut to 22ft./lbs, and then backed that off, and finger tightened it, but it still drags alot.
Mind you, the car has been sitting for a couple years. Could the wheel cylinder be locked up? I took the rubber boots off, and had gelled brake fluid in there, so I cleaned it out, but like I said, it spun free when I just had the shoes, cylinder, and star wheel in there.


Bad wheel cylinder? or warped backing plate? All other wheels spin free with the adjusters backed off except this one.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,330 Posts
If your saying the adjuster is tight it most likely is rusted up. Take it a part and clean it up until the adjuster is free.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6 Posts
I took the rubber boots off, and had gelled brake fluid in there, so I cleaned it out,

If you are referring to the wheel cylinder dust boots, there should never be fluid in there. You need new/rebuilt wheel cylinders to start with.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,786 Posts
If the backing plate were warped, you would have seen signs of rubbing I would think.... Only thing I can think of is a bad bearing or race. (bearing cup) Wheel cylinder if "locked up" (ie frozen) would cause the brake to drag, which you have stated they arent. (by saying the adjuster was backed completely off) (hope you have adjusted them for a slight drag on all corners)

Reason i say bad bearing/race as it gets tight/draggy after tightening the nut to specs...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
262 Posts
Discussion Starter #6 (Edited)
If the backing plate were warped, you would have seen signs of rubbing I would think.... Only thing I can think of is a bad bearing or race. (bearing cup) Wheel cylinder if "locked up" (ie frozen) would cause the brake to drag, which you have stated they arent. (by saying the adjuster was backed completely off) (hope you have adjusted them for a slight drag on all corners)

Reason i say bad bearing/race as it gets tight/draggy after tightening the nut to specs...
like I said, I installed the shoes, star wheel(took all four apart, and cleaned and smeared a slight amount of grease on the threads, they are not locked up), the wheel cylinder, and tightened to specs, spun easy. my bearings are fine, and the races are smooth, freshly packed bearings.
And as far as backing the adjuster off, it was already all the way slack, and yes, it is the correct one for that side, it was not put back on backwards.
And yes I know to adjust the shoes for a slight equal drag.
I had originally thought it was the return helper spring getting caught between the hub of the drum and the backing plate, so I took that off, and reinstalled everything, but still drag, so I took it all apart again and in stalled one peice at a time, each time retorquing the nut to specs, spun free untill the two main springs were put in. But when I slide the drum over the shoes, they dont rub, but still draggy, but it isnt the shoes rubbing.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
262 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
I took the rubber boots off, and had gelled brake fluid in there, so I cleaned it out,

If you are referring to the wheel cylinder dust boots, there should never be fluid in there. You need new/rebuilt wheel cylinders to start with.
Im with you there, ill get one tomarrow.
But I dont think its related to this problem.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
262 Posts
Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
Is the inner dust seal fully seated?
yes. I retorqued the nut several times, spun free untill the main springs went in.
except now I need a new one, because during many of my on/off/on's I folded the seal over. national seal 6815.
they are the right size shoe. they were bought four in a box, they work fine on the left side. Im pretty sure the shoes are the same as in, leading shoe can also be the trailing shoe. They looked the same.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
262 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
I was down at mason lake today hunting if I knew you were still having issues I'd have come looked at it for ya.
I'll be down there again tomorrow around noon to blast away with my 44 at some stumps with my cousin and nephew, if it's raining we won't shoot much. Maybe I can drop by and lend a hand.
yes, please. Its driving me nuts. We can shoot a few here if you like, ive got that norinko sks45, and a hi-standard .22(was my gramp's gun, I know its not more that a pellet gun, but....)
what time about? I can meet you at the chevron on hwy 3(deer creek) and you can follow me.I need to get a wheel cylinder and a seal in the morning. Ill do all the work, er, as much as I can.
Pm sent with phone number
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,641 Posts
so I get under it to adjust the star wheel, and low and behold- its already backed off all the way.
make sure the adjuster is correct one for that side...
if its the wrong one, it will back off adjuster instead of tighten
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
262 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
make sure the adjuster is correct one for that side...
if its the wrong one, it will back off adjuster instead of tighten
it is the right one... reverse thread.with an R under the small end.
thought i mentioned that.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,641 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
262 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
actually you did...
i skimmed thru the posts quickly and missed that...me bad...:D
thats cool, man. I took all four apart, and cleaned and small smear of grease on the threads, and just a slightest layer of grease on the small end, cap, er, what ever the turny thing is.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
262 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
did that pm get to you, Fe? i cant find a trace of it if i sent it or deleted it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
809 Posts
From what I get from your posts, you put your brakes together but without return springs the drum spins fine. But when you attach the return springs then when you put the drum on it is hard to spin/drags?

Maybe the pads on the backing plates have grooves worn in them?

The backing plates have 3 flat pads for each shoe, where the shoes touch/rest/slide on the backing plate. They may have grooves worn in them. And when you put the return springs on they are kicking the shoes in a way that one may be getting caught/hung up in one of the grooves?

Had problems with a car years ago like you are describing and ended up being grooves in the backing plates where the shoes rest.

Now when ever I do drum brakes I always check there and make sure they are flat and smooth, usually have to hit them with grinder to make them smooth.
If you do have grooves where the pads are you can just grind them flat with a grinder. Unless they are real bad. Have actually seen some worn through before.

I put just a light skim coating of brake grease on the flats/pads so shoes slide better when I am doing brakes.

Hope you get it worked out

Lou
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
262 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
actually, there are grooves, but the left side had them worse. I used a angle grinder to get them smooth again, left side works fine.
The grooves on the right side aren't that bad. I did grind down the lowest pad, but to no avail.
How much can I grind down? Just until they are gone? i hope its some thing that easy.
and you are right. spins free until the return springs go in.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
809 Posts
actually, there are grooves, but the left side had them worse. I used a angle grinder to get them smooth again, left side works fine.
The grooves on the right side aren't that bad. I did grind down the lowest pad, but to no avail.
How much can I grind down? Just until they are gone? i hope its some thing that easy.
I have ground smooth some pretty deep grooves before.

Could be something easy. You have the primary/secondary shoes in correct locations correct? Shorter shoe front, longer rear? 1 of each per side?

and you are right. spins free until the return springs go in.
Maybe hold down springs are weak and when you attach return springs it lifts shoe away from backing plate? See how the shoes sit on backing plate with return springs off and with them on.

Also you could swap parts from Good side to bad side and see if problem moves to other side.

Like take the hold down springs from good side and put on bad side. Then see if it spins free.
Swap other parts, springs, shoes, etc til it spins free. KWIM?

Lou
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
262 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
i had thought the shoes were the same. i will check in the am. I got a new wheel cylinder to put in. ill blast the bolts with pb blaster and let that soak in, while I check the shoes.
thanx
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
34,853 Posts
Sorry I didn't make it.. We shot abotu 600 rounds this afternoon and then I headed out to Port Townsend to take the ferry to Whidbey island and when I got there the damn ferry was cancelled so that's 140 miles out of my way for nuttin... :(

Keep working with the boy's here and we'll get to the bottom of this.
 
1 - 20 of 35 Posts
Top