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I'm currently running Sunoco 112($5.50 a gallon) and 93 pump gas($1.50) 1 for 1 in my hot rod. That puts my fuel cost at $3.50 a gallon. My little motor burns a lot of it. I would like to cut down on my fuel bill if possible. I also run 93 in my Bronco when I'm pulling the race car and I'm expecting it to hit over $2.00 a gallon this year.

I'm wondering if anybody on here is mixing their own racing gas using 93 as a base with toluene and maybe a little diesel? I need 97 to 100 octane for my race motor. I'm also wondering what ratio of toluene would be ok for my 93 Bronco and not hurt the O2 sensor or cat. Where locally can you get toluene in say 5 gallon containers? Is this approach really more cost effective than just buying 93 pump gas and mixing it with racing fuel?
 

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http://www.team.net/sol/tech/octane_b.html . Or you could set up a still in your backyard



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1964 Comet 289 C4 daily driver
TFS TW, Weiand Stealth, Comp XE268, Rhodes lifters, TFS roller rockers, Carter 625 AFB, Hooker SuperComps
"These go to 11." -This is Spinal Tap

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: dragman64 on 4/4/02 4:55pm ]</font>
 

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Hottarod, I would consider mixing pump and Aviation fuel 50/50. Av-Gas is 100 octane leaded. I burned LOTS of it with no problem. Best of all, it only costs around $2 a gallon.


Airports won't usually let you pump it directly into your car, but I've never had a problem pumping it into 5 gallon jugs. After stopping in a few times, they even started letting my pull my truck up to the pump to fill the jugs (so I wouldn't have to carry them) I've got eight of em'.


They said the Harley riders (mostly shovel heads), muscle car guys, and dirt track racers buy lots of fuel from them. They love to sell it to keep their stock nice and fresh.

Small airports are the best to deal with.

Good Luck!
 

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Will Xylene or Toulene damage any parts of the fuel system or leave residue in the engine? Could you use it to make 87octane into 93octane to use for a daily driver? Gas prices are rising. Lol.
 

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On 2002-04-04 04:27, Hottarod wrote:
I'm currently running Sunoco 112($5.50 a gallon) and 93 pump gas($1.50) 1 for 1 in my hot rod. That puts my fuel cost at $3.50 a gallon. My little motor burns a lot of it. I would like to cut down on my fuel bill if possible. I also run 93 in my Bronco when I'm pulling the race car and I'm expecting it to hit over $2.00 a gallon this year.

I'm wondering if anybody on here is mixing their own racing gas using 93 as a base with toluene and maybe a little diesel? I need 97 to 100 octane for my race motor. I'm also wondering what ratio of toluene would be ok for my 93 Bronco and not hurt the O2 sensor or cat. Where locally can you get toluene in say 5 gallon containers? Is this approach really more cost effective than just buying 93 pump gas and mixing it with racing fuel?
I built a 351 Clevor a few yrs ago. It had 12.5 to 1 compression. I attempted to do what your doing by mixing fuels to satisfy the engine's octane rating. In 2 months after spending $3000.00 for the engine , it spun a rod bearing, why you ask???? Engine knock so slight it was barely ever heard, it pounded the bearing flat and spun. Here's my advice,,,, SAVE YOUR MOTOR.........Spend the money and run the real deal. Your be happy in the long run I promise you. Just my 2cents..

GOOD LUCK !!!!!!!
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Toluene or methylbenzyne is a pure hydrocarbon made up only of hydrogen and carbon atoms. Going only by what I have read so far toluene is already in gasoline and some octane boosters and burns off leaving only CO2 and water so it burns clean but leaving toluene on the ground as in unburned gas is a definite no no(same as gas or diesel). It has an octane rating up around 112. To make 92 octane gas from 87 you would have to mix it around 20 percent or 1 out of 5 but it would also need an extra lubricant added. Since tolune runs $2.50 to $3.00 a gallon that would make it cost prohibitive for pump gas(4*1.30+3.00 / 5 = 1.64) but it might be a good alternative to buying racing fuel if I could find a proven mix. Putting something like toluene in gasoline would require an extra lubricating factor like kerosine, a light machine oil, a low smoke 2 cycle or diesel and so far I haven't found anybody with a proven mix that they are running.
 

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Err..

Don't wanna be the bitch that always stopped the horseplay, but messin around with toluene is super dangerous. Learned about what it does to the human body in a chem class. Nasty to say the least...you don't need to be exposed to that much of it, either. If you must deal with it, make sure your gloved and goggled...your skin will soak it up real good..

Chris
 

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Being the old guy that has worn out a couple of pairs of shoes, here's my take. There's no place safe enough to mix fuels. These are designed by engineers to perform specific tasks. Mixing fuels without a pyrometer is an invitation to disaster...see above. Different fuels have different specific gravities & change when mixed. Without proper tools & training the mix will always be different, that & aviation fuel(it has driers & de-icers your engine won't like) Aren't designed fot what you want to do. Like you I don't have a lot of money, but I do have access to a dyno & have tested some fuels. My 13.5 to 1 466 cranks out 750 flywheel HP on Phillips B-33 unleaded. The earth likes it, it's $3 a gallon & will not harm my expensive fuel system. The power gain going to Sunoco blue & C-12 was a negligible 9-12 HP. This was most likely timing, not pre-ignition. I want you to save your money as you aren't a Rockefeller, and I want you to spank all the ricers, & dare I say??? GM people. I don't think this si the best avenue to take. You might try going in with some friends & buy in bulk, although you shouldn't store in a plastic container. All the fuel companies will tell you that. If you need info in black & white e-mail me & I'll send you some links. Last thing, I fully expect to bear the brunt of quite a few people on this subject, that's why I took so ling to answer. The can of worms is now declared open
 

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I use straight race gas at the track (nitrous), but there are TONS of people that combine Aviation with pump gas for ping-free highway use. Any disadvantages that may accompany Av-Gas disappear when it's blended with pump fuel. The main difference is that it has fewer of the -light- compounds that vaporize really easy. (who wants a vapor lock at 10,000ft?)
But, all this does is make the engine a little harder to start in cold weather. If pilots trust it... in applications where a breakdown means a severe crash, I don't think it can be all that bad. Is it equivalent to race gas? No. It's not blended as race fuel. But, it still has tons of lead, and works great for increasing the octane of pump gas. At around $2/gallon, it's a very cost effective alternative to race fuel for 'ping free' cruising. For most cars, 5 gallons per tank is more than enough. It doesn't cost much more than pump premium. My tow vehicle tends to ping pretty bad under load, and 5 gallons to a tank cures all problems.

Hottarod, I see you are still using 1.5" Tri-Y headers on your beast... A switch to some Hooker Super Comps (the regular Comps aren't advertised to work with WP heads) should provide a significant horspower increase. You do have a GOOD exhaust past the headers, don't ya'?
It should have at least 2.5" with mandrel bent tailpipes. 3" would match the attitude of that car really well too.


Good Luck!
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Yeah I need some better headers. I might could have afforded some except right now I'm having to buy new rear slicks. I chewed my tires up skidding and sliding through the finish line backwards a couple weeks ago.

I run open headers which is the only reason the tri-y's are doing as well as they are. They are probably still making too much backpressure up on the top end. The header opening is actually smaller than the exhaust ports in the heads so that can't be good.
 
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