Ford Muscle Cars Tech Forum banner

1 - 19 of 19 Posts

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
5,865 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Swapping out my 3.0 rear end. I bought a 3.5 and it looks like an excellent match and feels pretty smooth. One problem right off the bat is the 3.5 has a 1" shorter U-joint flange. Second, I have no good tools for pulling seals, etc. On the plus side, the brake drums are off and I bought a creeper at Harbor Freight for $19 :)
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
5,865 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
yes
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,316 Posts
use it to remove the yoke, transfer to new pumpkin. ...
That's dangerous without more info. You'd better tell him how to get final torque right so he doesn't bind the pinion bearings or brinnel the races with the impact...

David
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
185 Posts
I dunno, people around where i live are afraid to tackle ring and pinion swaps. I myself havent done one yet because I was afraid to not get the lash set right and take out the rear end. be a good thing if someone with the right skills gave a step by step on this though.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,316 Posts
... be a good thing if someone with the right skills gave a step by step on this though.
That's been done. Their name is Ford, and they wrote step by step instructions for guys like you and me. They call it the Ford Service Manual (FSM). Ford even wrote many of them so there is one for exactly your year and model - not generic. Professional mechanics are guys like you and me that read the same manual - they just charge money for it when they do. All the specs and procedures are there. That is what I and many thousands of others have used over the years to do the same work we would pay someone else to do. Go for it.

I know I say this a lot, but if you own a classic car, you really need the FSM for it. 90% of the "How do I..." questions on the Forums are answered in those FSMs. How to do your brakes right, how to remove your chrome, adjust your door, replace your window, stop a leak, replace your gears, rebuild your engine, troubleshoot a no-start situation... and on and on. Sometimes they're a little cryptic for folks who have certain tools or knowledge (like how to read an electrical schematic). No problem, as that is when you come here with your questions. They save a huge amount of time and money for us owners. I don't want to say you're an idiot if you don't have the FSMs for your car, so I'll just say you'd be smart to have them.
;)
David
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
5,865 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
I have read through the FSM. It says a lot about: you need this tool to remove the U-joint flange, you need this tool to pull the bearing, this tool to replace the seal... It seems like a do-able project but what I'm afraid of izs I'll have to buy $200 worth of tools, and buy them one at a time, turning a 2 hour projectr into a two week project.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,316 Posts
I have read through the FSM. It says a lot about: you need this tool to remove the U-joint flange, you need this tool to pull the bearing, this tool to replace the seal... It seems like a do-able project but what I'm afraid of izs I'll have to buy $200 worth of tools, and buy them one at a time, turning a 2 hour projectr into a two week project.
Exactly. While they have their "official" Ford tools listed, you can see what the steps are and what you have to do to get the job done. There may be 101 ways to do those steps. If pulling a bearing, they may say to use a press, but perhaps you have a puller that would work well instead. The tools they list are generally the best for the job if available, but you can substitute anything workable that accomplishes the task without damage. For example, if you're torquing a pinion nut to secure the pinion flange (yoke) and preload the pinion bearings, you can use the sexy tool they show to hold the yoke, or maybe you have a big-assed adjustable wrench that will fit and work without damage. Use it.

The FSM does not guarantee you can do anything on the car, but gives you the info to determine if you have the time or tools. I have purchased some tools that cost enough I didn't save any money, but I did it anyway for the knowledge, experience, knowing it was right, or so I could sell the tool when finished to get some money back that way. Knowing the process from the FSM allows you to determine if the job is for you. If you want to change the differential bearings, but don't want to buy a dial indicator and mount - then you're going to instead pay to farm the work out. If you have everything but that, and are willing to drop $25 at the tool shop for one, then go for it. The FSM gives you the info you need to know to decide if the job is for you, and if it is, how to get you through it successfully. For some projects, there are good supplemental articles, books and videos that may be worth getting to save time or learn of alternative methods for technical projects like rebuilding your transmission or steering gear box.

Finally, the FSM makes you an educated customer. Not only do you know the muffler bearings do not need replacement to fix the wiper blades, you can even diagnose a problem and put them right to the issue, saving money. Or, if replacing bearings on your axles, do the expensive labor part yourself with the book, and just pay a shop to have the bearings pressed, rather than buying a $200 press. The FSM gives you many more options besides just opening your wallet.
:tup:
David
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
21,683 Posts
David gave FE instructions while on the phone to get the yoke at the right torque/feel and the rearend is still going strong. Impact makes things so much easier! I don't know how the FSM says to remove the bearings but the guy i took my axle to used a BFH and a chisel to cut my old one off. Last time i pressed one back on was for my van and i had access to the auto shop on base and used their press. But pressing them on is only like $10 or used to be anyway.

The axle seals i bought the $5 tool for but it frustrated me so used a screw driver and other things on hand. Just like that fancy drum brake tool, too many moving parts and for me vice grips and screwdrivers seemed easier. But i'm a tard. lol Don uses the tool with no problems. lol
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,495 Posts
using a bfh and a chisle is an accepted method to remove the bearing retainer. pressing the new one on is the easy part
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,797 Posts
Hey, He asked how to change the center section and what to do about the yoke. Nothing about wheel bearings. Pull the axles and driveshaft. pull the old center section and install the new one. Borrow a inch lbs. torque wrench and see how many in.-lbs. it takes to turn the pinion at the nut. Use your impact whench and remove the nut. Pull the old yoke off. Put a new seal in for the yoke. Install the yoke your are going to use from your old center section. Tighten the nut up until you get the same in.-lbs. as before and you are done. You don't have to change any bearings or set any gears up.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
94 Posts
One of the greatest things about a 9" is that it can be EASILY pulled from the vehicle and serviced on the bench! I often changed out one pig on Friday afternoon just for the weekend street racing and change it back Sunday evening for the work week drive. Get it done!
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
5,865 Posts
Discussion Starter #16 (Edited)
Woo hoo, that was FM easy. Bought a 1 1/16" socket, sprayed on some penetrating oil and Bzzzzt bzzzzzt bzzzzzt, the big nut was off! Why didn't they just say so in the manual? Thanx, Galz. Now I looked at the slip yoke and it has 1" of slip exposed past the seal. Maybe I should just use the impact wrench and put the nut back on the pinion and try it "as is?"
I see I should have bought an inch pound torque wrench too. rats. I'll put it on the list with a seal puller, seal putter-on-er and a tool to stop the tranny fluid from leaking out - though it soes already, LOL. After I make some sort of holder so I can jack the center sections off and on. I'd like to find a longer U-joint flange and put it on the new 3.5. That way the good 3.0 chunk that's on the car now won't have to be compromised if the new one does not work out. Hope that makes sense.

Tom
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,316 Posts
OK, I'll follow-up on the yoke swap then. Now that you've read the FSM on how they say to do it (adjust bearing preload by in/lb drag) you can use a modified method to get it done quickly with the tools you have. Here's what you can do:

Remove the axles (if in the car) to reduce the drag to turn the yoke by hand. Remove the pinion nut with the impact gun. Use a gear/bearing/something puller to take the pinion yoke off. Sometimes they're easy and just a few taps with a dead-blow mallet, babbit mallet or other soft force will get it off without tweaking it.

Next the seal comes out. One trick with seals is you can collapse them on an edge and they will fall out. Using a small cape chisel (so the bore the seal sits in is not damaged or scratched) and drive it down the edge of the seal to push the seal inward. When you do, the diameter of the seal gets smaller and it slips or falls out of the hole. If the seal is at the outside of an assembly (like this one), a regular chisel, punch or drift can be used to do the same thing by just angling the punch towards the inside and give it a couple hits to collapse the seal inwards.

So now you're ready for re-assembly. Use an open-center seal driver, or piece of PVC pipe, big socket, or whatever fits the seal diameter to evenly drive the new seal in. I think I used a lower timing gear once as a seal driver. ;) A light smear of non-hardening sealer around the edge is good insurance. Drive it in level and square. Slide the yoke on and use a new pinion nut if available, as they will grip better and come with a thread sealer on them. The sealer stops lube from slowly creeping through the threads to the outside and making a mess over time. If using the old nut, put a dab of sealer on the threads and run it on with the impact gun, but only until it makes contact.

Here's the trick to avoid damage to the bearings and get proper bearing preload.
This trick ONLY works when using the same parts and crush sleeve that was in it before. If any hard parts are changed (pinion gear, bearings or races) then you have to use the full Ford method with a new crush sleeve or spacer sleeve and shims to set the new preload. Also, this method requires extreme care as you cannot go too far without having to pull the assembly follow the rebuild process. You can NOT back-off if you go too far, as the sleeve will be over-crushed and the bearing races will likely be damaged. A new sleeve and bearing assemblies must then be installed.
Now you see why Ford avoids any mention of power tools for this. A careless grease-monkey under time pressure on the clock can slap it together and ruin parts easily. If you screw-up, the worst case is having to pull the pinion assembly and install new bearings, races and sleeve using the full FSM procedure without the impact. However, it can easily be done - just go slow and be careful.

If you have a torque beam or running torque meter, measure the running torque now (force to maintain smooth, even rotation of the assembly). Stop and feel the force required to continuously rotate the yoke by hand - the "running torque". Spin it several times to get a good feel for it. The FSM states a tiny drag to establish preload, and it's so small that it's hard to feel with all the other drag that's already in there. So, get a good feel for how hard it is to spin, and start driving the nut on, stopping to feel for ANY sign of increased drag as you go. You can tell as you get close as the wobble and slack of parts goes away and the sound changes. Hit it, feel it, hit it, and so on until you feel ANY increase in drag. STOP.

The slight increase in drag that a person can feel is right at the spec's in the FSM. If you have a running IN/LB toque beam or dial wrench, you can test against pre-torque numbers to verify. So, that's it. Note how easy it is, yet how simple it could be to blow the whole process and either over-torque causing bearing damage, or excess preload, causing the bearings to be wiped-out in a few miles. Or, backing-off causing the over-crushed sleeve to leave spacing that will ruin the bearings quickly. You can do this well in a few minutes with no problems if you use care. Go for it.

galax-z, I had no intention of muscling-in while you were giving advice, but I didn't want to leave him hanging or ruining parts. Please don't take offense.

David
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
5,865 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
PSIG that was an awesome post. Not just for me but for all future searchers! However, even reduced to a few simple paragraphs of work I think I will put the swap off. I have a few low risk jobs that can be done first. Then I can relook at this one.

Thanks to all who posted with advice.

Tom
 
1 - 19 of 19 Posts
Top