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Isn't the Camaro and Firebird cancelled from production? Maybe I'm wrong, but I thought there was an announcement when they closed the Quebec plant that made them.
 

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No, I mean how did they get 435 horsepwer @ 6000 rpm out of the 5.0 L 302? So, now im wondering does Chevy make better engines, thats what ive been hearing since i was a little kid.
 

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Read the tech article on building a 400hp 302. Who says its a struggle? That engine wasn't computer controlled either.

It's not like "GM" really designed the engine. If you look at the specs, most of the parts are made by the same manufactures of Ford aftermarket parts.

It's all just american engineering
 

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SMACK!

On 2002-05-31 13:45, HitmanKB wrote:
No, I mean how did they get 435 horsepwer @ 6000 rpm out of the 5.0 L 302? So, now im wondering does Chevy make better engines, thats what ive been hearing since i was a little kid.
 

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Having seen this car on last years' Hot Rod Power Tour I can tell you that is was essentailly a factory sponsored one-off EXPENSIVE engineering exercise. By way of comparison the 5 liter Trans AM Boss 302 engines of the late sixties, early seventies made more power. I think you'll see even better numbers from the 331 FM is doing right now at a fraction of the budget. If you want a way to compare which engines are "best" I'd look at the 80's NHRA Pro Stock cars; the Ford's carried to highest weight per cubic inch as a way to make the chevies competeive. This was before the advent of aftermarket blocks, heads etc. which makes the comparisons moot. Sorry for the long post, its an old soap box, but a good one.
 

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Ford usually lists lower HP readings than GM/Chrysler because they are conservative. It's a proven fact that Ford can actually achieve their HP advertisements, where GM/Slowpar are a little lacking. I think there was a test in Hot Rod a few years ago where they tested the Mustang and Camaro against the factory's advertised HP, and the mustang was MUCH closer than the gm. Seems to me that the mustang was advertised at 225 HP, and made 180 (rear wheel), and the camaro was advertised at 305, and made only 190. Just going by memory here, which isnt that great anymore.
 

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im totally a ford fan, but chevy has been doing a lot better with their performance recently than ford. Now, the 4.6 is being better developed like in packages like the cobra, but a ss camaro will totally destroy a stang other than the new cobras which put out more power than the gt , unlike the old cobras which only made 5 more hp. What the hell was ford doing from like 90-2000 when chevy took off with the camaro? You could get a 5.7 in a camaro, and only a 5.0 in a mustang, then the 4.6(which was crappy the first year or two of production, ford offered a 5.0 replacement to unsatisfied customers) . Ford is backing their rice-like focus in racing when they should be backing a real car. And fords only performance car is a mustang, chevy has the corvette which is a step above the stang. Lets face it, ford is not supporting the performance industry like chevy does.
 

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I'll agree that when it comes to hp, the camaro almost always does better (except for the cobras) but that doesnt really mean much. If performance was the whole reason people bought these cars, the Camaro wouldnt be seeing its last year of production. The majority of Mustang buyers arent looking to go fast. They want a good looking, solid car. The interior of camaros as far back as I can remember has always been cheap, lots of ill fitting plastic, and starts rattling relatively soon after buying. The Mustang has far better quality in this respect, and is on of the main reasons the mustang is the prefered car. As far as Ford not backing the performance side like GM, I agree. I'd like to see more from Ford, but considering I'm more into the classic side of it all (as my user name suggests) I dont really care if they get 500 hp out of the 4.6. Sure it'd be cool, but I'll never own one, know what I mean?
 

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I'll jump in too, what the hell. Look at hp/liter. Who does better generally? Ford. Who's pony car is still in production? Ford. Look at the offerings, Lighting, Cobra, Bullitt(sp?), possible Mach 1, GT, even the little Focus. Ford has their bases pretty much covered. The GT-40 is slated for production. What's that I hear? Sounds like Corvette competition banging on the door. You have to admit, the new Cobra is way bad-ass.
Now I do agree the Ford dropped the ball a little in the mid-late 90's. However, they do appear to be listening to us gearheads. Plus, we do have SVO. Just think of them as a civilian Skunkworks.
 

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Hell,throw a supercharger on a 5.0 and you'll see 400 ponies pump out also..... it's all bolt on crap available aftermarket,price the Camaro and then price the Mustang...think you could afford to charge it with the difference? and besides,if the damn Camaro is so great,why are they stopping production?. We have quite a few of the SS's show up at the track every friday and not ONE of them ever gets to the finals,week after week it's either all mustang or 3 of 4 mustangs in the finals.
Jax
89 Mustang LX
 

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Hey guys,This Chevy ford thing irks me I am a ford fan not because they are faster than chevys, I even like some of the Chevys.I love fords because they have always looked better,Although the new Mustangs are ugly and the cammaro and fire bird have nicer lines.We have had some dogs like the Y blocks compared to the Chevy small blocks in 55 56 57 etc.327 chevys in D stock in the early 60s kicked any 390s butt usually.the fords were heavy and the chevys were lighter etc. then ford made the small block 289 302 and started kickin some butt.Chevy didn't do jack in 63 64 65 66 ford dominated.then they brought out the Camaro in 67 and started doin some good things but they couldn,t touch the fords.Because Chevy kind of got out of the performance thing for awhile as did Ford at differnt times. They are all american cars. I bet you don't see a honda driver in Japan with a piss on toyota sticker on his window.And last but not least you can get 400 horse out of a 302 no problem.The 62 chevy 409 kicked ass at the N.H.R.A nationals and Ford had the 406.Why didn't ford put dual quads and forged crank on the 406??but Ford 406 kicked butt on the Nascar track I don't know if Chevy even won a race in 62 on the Nascar track.Its all fun.don't let it get to ya.
 

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Hey Jimmyfo: no offense but it may be all fun to you but see I'm 48 years old & back in the day I had a 65, 67, 69, 71 & 73 Mustang. I hated chebbies then & I guess I hadn't grown up yet because I hate em now. Actually I don't hate em but I can't figure out why everything around here is chevy. I haven't raced in 25 years or so & now in my second childhood I bought a 67 fastback. Turns head everywhere I go & there ain't any chebbies around that can touch me. And you're right, I do live in a small town. (There ain't no big block fords around, thank God)Of course the 351w with all the goodies didn't hurt anything! I just don't see it as an American vs foreign thing. Anyway, I respect your opinion but had to get that off my chest. And I think the new Mustangs are awesome looking. Of course I'd never buy one because with that kind of money, I'd try to find me a Boss or something. Have a great day!
 

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Everything is made for SBC for the same reason that 99% of software is made to run under MS Windows. Early on Microsoft gained a slightly larger share than their competitors, and that slight edge and momentum carried them to where they are today. The SBC was the dominating engine when it came out, and the SBF came just a little too late, Chev already had the momentum and the aftermarket stuck with them. Had the 289/302 came out before the SBC, then the roles would have been reversed. That's my oppinion anyways.
 

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And back to the original question, no, the chev's don't make more power because they are 'just a better engine'. Take a Chev 302 and a Ford 302 and put the same camshaft in, similar design and flowing heads and intake, same compression and combustion chamber design, and I'll bet you couldn't tell one apart from the other power-wise. It's all about the combo, not the name cast into the parts.
 

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Many 5.0 Mustang owners are making 400hp at the flywheel an beyond. Just check some of their techboards once in awhile. Current hot set-ups:

AFR 185 heads or TEA Trick Flow Twisted wedge heads (ported) 10.5 to 11.0 to 1 compression, Holley Systemax II intake or Edelbrock RPM (ported) CUSTOM cam, 30 to 36lb injectors, plenty of dyno tuning. All on pump gas. I know of at least one car w/ 400RWHP! out of a 5.0 (306) and can be driven to work a couple times a week- and it is still EFI! A racer at Sacramento is making 340rwhp and 340rwtq w/ his 5.0 EFI w/ on of the above listed combos' and his custom cam has a litle LESS duration and lift on the exhaust side than on the intake. Not the prevailing wisdom but obviously he is having excellent cylinder filling combined w/ great cylinder pressures. While the big blue oval may not have been doing it from the factory the aftermarket has been allowing the 5.0 crowd to hit this number for the last couple of years. No mysteries here.

JL

 

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I agree with chilly460. When Holden (the local branch of GM) released the ls1 here in Oz just about everyone thought it was the second coming... until Tickford (Ford Oz's Performance arm) released a 347 stroker windsor w/[email protected] and [email protected] Now there a lot of very scared holden owners and a lot of ford freaks that can't wait to see what Tickford can do with th 5.4.

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<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: austfairmont66 on 6/2/02 11:56pm ]</font>
 

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Its a neat car but it isnt anything earth shattering. It can be and already has been done with 302 ford. The stang is a better car and the proof is in the sales. Ford bean counters will not turn loose what is totally possible with fords mod motors...they have mega potential. The Ford FR500 stang 4.6 is a 415 hp screamer. As far as the Focus is concerned it isnt really my thing but a 304 hp turbo 4 banger in the FR200 is nothing to laugh at. It would embarrass many cars at 2700 pounds. IF the right people were in control of things...Ford would make GM look silly. They ar far ahead in OHC and small motor stuff. Sorry to say but small bore motors are here to stay as they burn cleaner.
Pushrod motors will one day be a thing of the past from the factory.
 

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Smokey Yunick once said, An engine does not know whose name is on the value covers.
 
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