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I really don't want to go there, I'm guessing we've about the same age since you've mention you were working on engines since 72. You’re correct this is not my engine or project but we both have over 40+yrs with a combined 80+yrs experience and I have agree with you on certain subjects and held back on others.

Mistakes that are made can let the readers into miss-information and without corrections the outcome can be confusing and costly not only to the readers but to the original person which posted looking for answers.

I normally stay out replying posts, When I started reading this post I notice that there were no information which led to persons making assumptions. I ask for clarification to be able to analyses and assess what the original posted is looking for.

It’s not that it’s funny of the post but the replies, words like “Dude, Man….” Reminds of the 70’s-90’s in California. And the “SMS language, textspeak, texting language, abbreviated language and slang which I can’t even read or sometime understand my kids text’s. Is it really necessary in communication on this or other forums? I have to interrupt if it’s a miss-spelling or SMS language plus the grammar is really bad.

In Law Enforcement "To find the Answers, you have to ask the Right Questions which will then lead you to the Truth."

But without knowing the truth may lead to the unknowns and once the path is written person will follow the path until someone asks the right questions.

As you mentioned “351W is a much stronger engine and bolts up to everything you have, acc, motor mounts and trans.” And I totally agree with you. To put $2k into a 302ci 5L in my opinion is foolish, but finding and spending that money on a 351W/C. The 302ci can be push to a 347ci $$$$ but the 351ci can be push to 427+ci with some extra $. If auriga what to keep the originality of his 1979 Thunder Heritage with 302 and C4 then I would suggest removing the engine and placing it in a corner somewhere in the garage.

Personally if it’s a Ford Small Block I prefer the 351W/C/"someM?". "400M? including 385 series have Different Trans Bolt patterrn" I’m a Big Block FE man myself as you mentioned “The only substitute for cubic inches is more cubic inches.”. Sometimes I was assigned to work on Military diesel engines vehicles and that got me fascinated on Turbo and SC. The theory of increasing air flow by raising air pressure to the cylinders in turn increasing engine CI. Now a days the cost is not as great$$ compare to the 80’s,90’s and early 2000’s.

What did you think about the theory of increasing and stablizing the Voltage to the coil?
 

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the voltage the coil builds to is only as much as is required. if the engine isn't highly modified, the ignition system doesn't need to be.
thr s n nd for vls, bt w stll s thm
 

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I'm a constant voltage to the coil and especially at lower RPMs. When starting and idling it needs more spark to burn clean. Weak spark when you hit the pedal lowers response, IMO. If it's racer, I change my coil and battery every season. I use at least a 100 Amp alt.
I've worked on a bunch of different stuff ENC, USN, Ret. V16 Cats with after cooled (salt water) turbo charged, 12-71s both super and turbo charged. V-12 Packards, Bosch FI, 4 cycle, dual overhead cammed, turbo charged. Alum 4-71s. Opposed piston 10 cyl Fairbanks Morse Super Charged blowing 6,000 CFM. 4 cyl flatheads in tow trackers. Even worked around Nuc Reactors. When I first went in the Navy I moonlighted at the Auto Hobby shop. Seen GT500 with a dual quad 427, 66 Shelby 289 Dual Quad, 392 & 426 Hemis, 440 6 pacs, 69 Vette 427 6 pk, Porsche Turbo Carrera, Lotus, etc, etc, etc. Beautiful 70 Mach 1 351C, 4spd shacker, the guy ordered from Ford and drove it for 1 week. Then pulled the engine and had it blueprinted. Not to mention my Navy jobs of Hydraulics, steam, 50-1200PSi, AC/R, Air comps 50-3000PSI, etc, etc, etc. Not to mention the 6 months of different Fire Fighting schools 2 major fires, 1 month flooding schools, fuel testing, etc, etc, etc.
I worked in Iraq for 3 years as a "private contractor", 06/05 - 08/08. Doing some interesting things. Been around the world once, literally.
Born an USAF Brat. Lived in Vegas and seen 3 Atomic bomb tests, closer then we were suppose to. Dad an E-9 had access. So yeah, I have a sense of humor.
 

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the voltage the coil builds to is only as much as is required. if the engine isn't highly modified, the ignition system doesn't need to be.
thr s n nd for vls, bt w stll s thm
Really!

Do U really even know about or understand electronic? What type and amount of voltage is necessary to create a spark? And how long is the spark? As you increase RPM what is the duration of each spark? When the Spark plugs went from 32-35mil back in the times How and Why did we change to 45-60mil? Have you heard of an Oscilloscope?

When GM went to the HEI, What do u think they had done? Did you know that at this point in time 15 is now the average on the “Coils” voltage? Why did they do that? And Oh by the way we don’t use the oil fills anymore or as mention by rickyracer1983 or the Resistor. Why did the oil fill was replace by a "very old technology" call Epoxy (matter of fact used on Airplanes, Motorcycles, Lawn Mowers, Chain Saws, etc... Sorry ur to young for that technology)? Did u know back in 1970-80's the voltage was only 6volts, Why did almost all manufactuures go to 12+Volts? And do you know about the spark plug technology? Why do you think 45-60mil is the gap? Force air induction is still 35mil and almost everyone recommends Copper Plugs, Why do u think we use old spark plug technology in modern vehicles? U do understand all that will disappear in the future generation of vehicles?

We are still talking about a 1979 system with the MSD? Google how the MSD system works.

If you really want some education Google “FIRESTORM” and the proven theory behind it and not the ebay junk.

Also Google How and Who named the 1983 007 "Never Say Never Again".
Sorry I forgot ur to young for that....

I can't read SMS to lazy to Google it, u must be the kids roommate.
 

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I'm a constant voltage to the coil and especially at lower RPMs. When starting and idling it needs more spark to burn clean. Weak spark when you hit the pedal lowers response, IMO. If it's racer, I change my coil and battery every season. I use at least a 100 Amp alt.
I've worked on a bunch of different stuff ENC, USN, Ret. V16 Cats with after cooled (salt water) turbo charged, 12-71s both super and turbo charged. V-12 Packards, Bosch FI, 4 cycle, dual overhead cammed, turbo charged. Alum 4-71s. Opposed piston 10 cyl Fairbanks Morse Super Charged blowing 6,000 CFM. 4 cyl flatheads in tow trackers. Even worked around Nuc Reactors. When I first went in the Navy I moonlighted at the Auto Hobby shop. Seen GT500 with a dual quad 427, 66 Shelby 289 Dual Quad, 392 & 426 Hemis, 440 6 pacs, 69 Vette 427 6 pk, Porsche Turbo Carrera, Lotus, etc, etc, etc. Beautiful 70 Mach 1 351C, 4spd shacker, the guy ordered from Ford and drove it for 1 week. Then pulled the engine and had it blueprinted. Not to mention my Navy jobs of Hydraulics, steam, 50-1200PSi, AC/R, Air comps 50-3000PSI, etc, etc, etc. Not to mention the 6 months of different Fire Fighting schools 2 major fires, 1 month flooding schools, fuel testing, etc, etc, etc.
I worked in Iraq for 3 years as a "private contractor", 06/05 - 08/08. Doing some interesting things. Been around the world once, literally.
Born an USAF Brat. Lived in Vegas and seen 3 Atomic bomb tests, closer then we were suppose to. Dad an E-9 had access. So yeah, I have a sense of humor.
Sorry I know I have issue.

USAF brat, USAF was my beginning and almost ending in Life I guess the worst of times and the best of times. And like you I've been everywhere across the US and the world. Now TBI and PTSD have set-in.

Now back the subject on hand. If you read my response to the kids roommate you'll understand the importance of just one detail. The MSD which was install created a better response but we're still unclear on the mods (Type of Spark Plugs, Gap of Plugs, Coil, Timing, etc...) made before the testing. It was possible the old Spark Plugs were fouled creating the lost in power and not due to the MSD. The Duraspark may have been fine.

I believe there are many suggestions considering mods and the upgrade to a larger engine size, which as you mention should Bolt right in would be an option if the original poster assesses the point of view by others. Main and Rod ARP bolts and Main Cap Girdle should hold it in place for the HP he’s look at.

Talking about 66shelbys and GT500, In 1990 I decided to sell all my Hard Tops and just have Convertibles this was due to a changes I preceded of the future Prices/Demand. Other than vehicle never made as a convertibles like to 1978 King cobra and Bricklin. See Attach pics. Other than the 66 GT350H and 68 FB GT500KR I still have the others but I wish I could finish the KR in my Garage.
 

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Forgot to add a pic of my TR8 which I had also posted in another posting. The 3.5L V8 was always over heating and after multiple head rebuilt the engine blew. I decided to replace it with a stock 1969 350ci 5.8L SBC engine but still not satisfy. I place a never rebuilt 6.71 SC. I was on the express way and doing about 200km, 120mph and floor it I was lucky I ended in the ditch with only 4boken wheels, broken rear Axle and not dead. The tires couldn't stop spinning and the TR was going sideways.

The effects of a forced induction vs naturally aspirated to a stock engine is priceless and deadly.

After that maiden voyage I decided to pull the SBC w/SC out.
 

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Unlike you I don't have TBI or PTSD. Never have been ashamed or embarrassed by anything to anyone that I've done. No regrets
I have many, As the Senior MC or OIC I had to make instant decision which cost lives. It still haunts me. Want if? Not easy having to go inform families their love one was killed while under your command. There’s a song which my son use to play by Linkin Park – “Castle of Glass” Go to Youtube and watch the “Official Video” will explain how Our US Military, Law Enforcement, Fire Fighter… have to make decisions which cost Lives. I play it everyday now to remind me What I had to do. Like the Video I Volunteer/Insisted to upper command I will not reveal the mission but I personally not a Assigned Officer and needed to inform the families.
I have always had tears.
 

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I have many, As the Senior MC or OIC I had to make instant decision which cost lives. It still haunts me. Want if? Not easy having to go inform families their love one was killed while under your command. There’s a song which my son use to play by Linkin Park – “Castle of Glass” Go to Youtube and watch the “Official Video” will explain how Our US Military, Law Enforcement, Fire Fighter… have to make decisions which cost Lives. I play it everyday now to remind me What I had to do. Like the Video I Volunteer/Insisted to upper command I will not reveal the mission but I personally not a Assigned Officer and needed to inform the families.
I have always had tears.
I could respond, to your post, but I really won't go into it to much, over then, as an AF brat I sweated my dad in the early days of Nam, then 20 years active duty myself, Grenada, Eagle Pull and Mayaguez boat crew taking out wounded and KIA Marines, Gulf War. Honor Guard I don't know how many times. Now I sweat my son 20 years active, 3 tours Iraq and 1 Afghanistan. Especially since I've lost a nephew 9/03 and 2 cousins, 04/04 & 08/11. Yeah while working as a Pri Cont. I made 17 decisions, while doing VIP and convey protection, that were life or death and I never felt I made the wrong one especially since my decisions saved American lives.
Watch the movie "Taking Chance" with Kevin Bacon, been there done that. And we need to move to a different forum.
 

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Getting your T-bird to "move" a little better with your 302.....my vote is change your axle for a 3.25. If you decide to go 351, everything your 302 needs can be done to the 351 and you will have a much better motor for a car that size. Leave the 302 alone, start building a 351 and when you are done just swap it. If your tranny is tired, that will need to be done either way. You do not need a big cam to get the HP increase you want, and you really should focus on the most torque you can make. Change your gear, and then see if you really want to go through the rest of it. That is my 2 cents.
 

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Discussion Starter #52
alright. I really dont understand why you guys are arguing...
I guess the laber in my area is really high, I can do every job on the engine but the only i can't is separate from transmission and lift it out of the car. (For real, sometime i want a engine lift and a shop car lift in my garage).
So, The price they quote for remove and put the engine back in is 1400$, and that is the lowest.(Metro of NYC) If you know someplace better I would really want to hear about, I knew a reman 351w short block is roughly around 1000,and even a long block is around 1600. But the cost of remove and install is so high, i really need to stay with this 302 for now. And after i move to VA later this year and find a shop over there.
So i already installed these two heads on the 302. will see after i assembled back together.
So if i didnt change cam, i dont need to change push rod right?
 

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if you're going to do heads & a 4-barrel intake, you really have to switch to a 4-barrel carb, and better exhaust.
otherwise you've upgraded the airflow in the middle...but not the "in" or the "out".
 

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Discussion Starter #54
if you're going to do heads & a 4-barrel intake, you really have to switch to a 4-barrel carb, and better exhaust.
otherwise you've upgraded the airflow in the middle...but not the "in" or the "out".
Yes, that real.
Header is new, chrome pipe style header, should be enough for this little set up.
And I think i read somewhere, a 302 engine when at 5000rpm, should only need around 500cfm. And I read the MC2150 is rated for 450 rpm. Since my rear end is pretty for highway, and I mainly need it on the highway, I really dont want to cruise at 3500rpm.. I still plan to go for a Holley or edelbroke 550cfm in the coming month, but for now i will still using the 2150 since its pretty reliable.
 

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Discussion Starter #55
if you're going to do heads & a 4-barrel intake, you really have to switch to a 4-barrel carb, and better exhaust.
otherwise you've upgraded the airflow in the middle...but not the "in" or the "out".
And I really have no choice to upgrade the exhaust, because I delete all the emission crap. Including EGR and AIR system. I think I read somewhere for a ford in this year with stock CAT, Missing AIR system will block the cat. So for now I dont have a cat, hope i will not moving to CA in the future lol.
 

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Discussion Starter #56
if you're going to do heads & a 4-barrel intake, you really have to switch to a 4-barrel carb, and better exhaust.
otherwise you've upgraded the airflow in the middle...but not the "in" or the "out".
I failed.
The intake is too high, and plus the 2bbl to 4bbl adapter, and the height of MC2150, that is not gonna work.
It force me to get a 4bbl carburetor....
So I get a Edelbrock AVS2 500cfm to make it happen.
I really hate going through the process to adjust the carburetor. It took me 3 days to properly adjust that 2150 carbs.
 

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To answer your other question first, It's a Alpha Dog thing, LMAO. You can always rent a hoist to pull and install. If you do stay with the 302. Just stroke it out to 347 and make it mild for low end torque.
 

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You can build a 1000 HP 302, not a problem, just bring money. But it's uses are very limited as is it's life span. Just saying with that heavy of car, more cubic inch is needed for what he's looking for. Besides, by the time you put enough money in the 302, a more cub 300HP 351W is easy to have. Plus the more TQ that goes with it. And he doesn't have to really change anything to put it in there.
Personally if it was mine, 460, C-6 3.50 posi, get rid of the 5MPH bumper garbage and have them rewelded to fit closer to the body. It would look much better. Those were the worse bumpers they ever made. When I want to haul ass, I don't make 2 trips.
Agree totally but if your on a tight budget you want bang for the buck
 

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My plan would be change rear 3.23 if it's a direct junkyard swap
Service c4 adj bands
Hot cold engine oil pressure tests
Comps good
Performer manifold if bonnet clearance is concern and 500 avs is good choice
Cheap shortys and run it
 
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