[colkerr]

Below is a list of parts I have to assemble my motor. On top of these parts I have all of the nessecities for assembly (gaskets, oil pump, Cloyes timimg set, ect….)

Block: 66 289 fresh bored to .030, align honed
Rotating assy: 289 crank and rods fresh grind .010/.010
OR
302 crank and rods fresh grind .010/.010
Pistons: El Cheapo cast flat tops with 4 valve reliefs. Installed they were about .030 in the holeOR
TRW L2249N.030 domed.
Heads: 351W pedestal mount 69cc chamber. Some light porting work done. Good valves and Comp springs. Stock steel rockers(pedestal)
OR
NIB Edelbrock E Street aluminum heads with Comp full roller rockers
Intakes: Performer 289 OR RPM Airgap OR PP Hurricane (Vic jr knockoff)
Cams: Stock grind OR XE268H (ls 110, dur @ 050-I224/E230 Lift:I 509/E512)
OR Magnum 292H (ls 110, dur @ 050-244/244 lift 534/534)
[Keep in mind budget on top of these parts is $0.00. Car is a 64 Falcon, some track time (10 trips a year) 3.89 gear(9 inch), 245/60/14 tire, close ratio 4 speed(t10 with some internal upgrades).
How would you build it? No adding any other parts. This stuff is all sitting in my garage.
Cheers
Matt

Edit: My time is free to me so port matching ect.. can be added to these list of goodies. All fasteners are ARP (main studs. head bolts, rod bolts) Engine will see 6K rmp regularly.

 

[Mroldfart2U]

A decent selection of goodies,
First thing that comes to mind is what is purpose of car REALLY?
I see the 10/ year track use, is it for fun, money, bragging rights?
Pick parts on what the REAL purpose of car is to be, and let it be.
If you are wanting to impress, the stock cam is left on shelf, so pick out of the others with end goals in mind.

Also no mention of any balancing?

M2C

I cant tell you how to build YOUR car for YOU.
(not trying to sound smart assed or noncommittal but thats the way it really is)

 

[colkerr]

Car is a "barhopper". Trips to the track are for bragging rights. I'm chasing my buddy who runs a 49 Merc with a 400 chebby in it. He runs 12.50. Machine shop will balance rotating assy for me once I pick it. I pretty much know what combo I'll go with but was just curious to see others opinions.

Matt

 

[Mroldfart2U]

Car is a "barhopper". Trips to the track are for bragging rights. I'm chasing my buddy who runs a 49 Merc with a 400 chebby in it. He runs 12.50. Machine shop will balance rotating assy for me once I pick it. I pretty much know what combo I'll go with but was just curious to see others opinions.

Matt

WEEELLLLL in THAT case take it to the limit, yer behind on cubes right from jump, so you are going to have to twist it up some. Wont be the best hyway cruiser but bar hopper week end cruise romps and bragging rights are all on the line.

Someone else can chime in on the heads, dunno crap about all the alum ones out, but do know they are easier to re-work than the cast units. Better? dunno. More compression friendly yes

Think Id go for the 302 crank, domed pistons, magnum cam, intakes can be swapped but think id start with the hurricane. Never mentioned carb but 670 or so, in dbl pump config. (maybe even a 700) depending on the revs of course And a good set of headers.... No bigger than 3" dual exhaust.

there I gave an answer, now for the smart guys to jump in.....

 

[colkerr]

Doug's tri-y with 2 1/2 dual. Holley 670 street avenger. My car with a 289 last year ran mid 13's on street tires. His car weighs in at 3500 lbs. mine 2990 with me in it.

 

[Mroldfart2U]

My car with a 289 last year ran mid 13's on street tires. His car weighs in at 3500 lbs. mine 2990 with me in it.

There is part of the prob, a drag radial will be better that straight streets... You will have to like i said twist it some to get there down the cubes like you are... A good balancing tho and 6-7k wont be a prob if the top end is up to task... I really figured David woulda chimed in by now.... Or some of the other racer types... You said yer friend runs mid 12's? and you mid 13's, have ya'll just ran heads up? If so where does he "get you" Out of hole, mid track, top?

 

[PSIG]

Block: 66 289 fresh bored to .030, align honed
Rotating assy: 289 crank and rods fresh grind .010/.010
OR
302 crank and rods fresh grind .010/.010
Pistons: El Cheapo cast flat tops with 4 valve reliefs. Installed they were about .030 in the hole OR
TRW L2249N.030 domed.
Heads: 351W pedestal mount 69cc chamber. Some light porting work done. Good valves and Comp springs. Stock steel rockers(pedestal)
OR
NIB Edelbrock E Street aluminum heads with Comp full roller rockers
Intakes: Performer 289 OR RPM Airgap OR PP Hurricane (Vic jr knockoff)
Cams: Stock grind OR XE268H (ls 110, dur @ 050-I224/E230 Lift:I 509/E512)
OR Magnum 292H (ls 110, dur @ 050-244/244 lift 534/534)

... Car is a 64 Falcon, some track time (10 trips a year) 3.89 gear(9 inch), 245/60/14 tire, close ratio 4 speed(t10 with some internal upgrades). ... Engine will see 6K rmp regularly.

OK, here's my 2¢. Your block deck and tire/gearing are problems, but...

I recommend the green stuff, and avoid the red stuff. The cams are a toss-up due to your deck and gearing. Here's the issue - your deck height is horrible at .030, and not only lowers compression a full point, but invites detonation as well with no effective quench area. So, just to get about 10.5:1 you need the E-Street heads and the domed pistons with the 302 setup. Even with no quench you should be OK at that level, and that would be fine for the 268 cam, and the bare minimum for the 292.

The chambers on the D8 heads would be great for a supercharger, but can't make any compression even with domes, given that bad deck height. The 289 crank would make even less compression, and why the 302 would be favored for this setup of parts. So, the E-Streets it is. If they are the early 60xx versions, then they are not bad, but a bit small for a Vic Jr and 292 cam. With some porting, they could do well. If they are the later 50xx versions, then you're OK either way.

That leads to gearing. The 268 is a good match for the Toploader and 3.89 gears. Probably the best all-around combo. The 292 will need closer to 7000 RPMs and should have deeper gears to see the gains, and without them will probably be a toss-up for the 1/4 mile against the 268. From that perspective, for the other 90% of the time, the 268 will be a better cam with the RPM intake as well. The 268 has a nice rumble, and the 292 is just nasty. I personally don't like my car to sound like a 10-second monster when it can only run 12s, so I'd probably do the 268 - but that's me.

So it's toss-up time. If you want a really nasty sound, then clean-up the E-Streets and use the single plane and 292 with domes on the 302 crank and rods - but save-up for gears. Or, use the E heads as is or massaged, domes, Air Gap and 268 with your 3.89 gears. I imagine that's where you figured you were, and why you were asking. I think I'd lean toward the 268 setup, and when you get some deeper gears, throw the 292 and single-plane on it then.

David

 

[DanH]

Edel. heads , air gap , dome pistons (worked over ) , 302 stuff,

stuff you don't have ,, 650 or 700 dp , solid lifters , cam on 108 lsa 238I/244e , lobe lift to head flow

for a great bar hopper , can't beat a taxi cab

 

[colkerr]

It's just an expression Dan.

 

[DanH]

It's just an expression Dan.

you never know , very glad that it is

 

[colkerr]

All machine work is at zero cost to me. I renovated his house and get free machine work for free. Saying I should deck the block?

 

[PSIG]

I would. You need to have less than about .050" between deck clearance and gasket for effective quench. Check your assembled deck clearance for a final measurement. Your block probably needs to be squared anyway. Then massage your pistons and you should be right in there.

David

 

[colkerr]

By massaging pistons are you talking about fire slotting them? I'd like to see a photo of a before and after piston. It was explained to me by a member here who I won't mention (DanH) but I can't visualize a finished piston.

Cheers
Matt
Ps thanks to DanH for taking the time to explain this to me

 

[DanH]

By massaging pistons are you talking about fire slotting them? I'd like to see a photo of a before and after piston. It was explained to me by a member here who I won't mention (DanH) but I can't visualize a finished piston.

Cheers
Matt
Ps thanks to DanH for taking the time to explain this to me

I'm not able to do pics . only need to see a pic of TRW 351C or TRW B302 dome piston for the idea of slot

then a large radius on evrything else

the X brands even copyed that slot on their domes

can someone post a pic of a 351C dome w/slot ?

 

[mustangboy]

You said the flat tops were .030 in the hole but what about the domed pistons?..You might have to mock one up and see before doing any machine work...It is also my understanding the "E" heads have stockish type valve springs and parts...Will the springs off of the 351 heads work with either of the cams you mentioned?Perhaps they will work on the E heads?

Your worst case scenario of parts sounds almost like my old 306 combo.It had flat tops .030 in the hole and I was running the magnum 292 cam.Single plane wieand Xcellerator and ported 69 302 heads...It ran a best of 13.70 in the summer heat.(68 mustang with toploader and 4:11s)

 

[colkerr]

Well the valve spring issue is another story. Estreet heads come with 1.25 diameter springs. Edelbrock suggests an rpm limit of 5500 due to the springs. So I found some Manley springs that will fit the head that are good to 6500 and they have the same specs as the Edelbrock springs! 6000 is my planned rpm limit. I may just leave them in there.


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[PSIG]

Here's a C piston for example. Notice both clearance and slot mods. Don't be shy about removing material, cutting your big slot in one shot with an appropriate cutter, then blending all over as Dan said. If the machine work is free, I'd ask if he could mill the basic slot on all 8 for you with a ball end-mill, and then blend them all yourself. With the slot cut evenly on all 8, then blending would take maybe an hour for all of them with a cylinder-shaped bit to break edges and flappers to smooth it all.

David

Note the rather large amount of material removed. This will also help keep your compression under control assuming you square the block and drop the decks:

Pic from Buttnutt at Pirate4x4

 

[colkerr]

So from spark plug towards exhaust valve center?


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[DanH]

So from spark plug towards exhaust valve center?


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thats what I said

Pics do have a use afterall .

the edge of the dome (highest part) also enlarge that radius

if your heads have a good valve job and bowl , the entire top of piston shoul be black from the burn

 

[Mroldfart2U]

Kinda like this:


Boss302