Ford Muscle Cars Tech Forum banner

1 - 13 of 13 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
5 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I'm a novice when it comes to mechanics, but I've been learning rapidly. I know enough to rebuild my carb, granted I don't know what half the parts are called. I also know enough to maintain my vehicle.

The problem is that I was driving home today I got completely wasted by a mother f#%!ing rice burning piece of **** Honda Civic. I've lost to some vettes, 5.0's, Nova's, and Dusters before, and this ******* kicked my as worse than my cousins 69 Mach 1 427 big block. Unacceptable.

I need to get more performance out of my stock 351w and I need some advice. What do I do? I am done haveing well maintained classic that's faster than most cars, I want to transform her into a fast well tuned machine thant can pull a q-mile in under 12 without a bottle.

Please help this novice lover of the Ford Mustang. Please also excuse my ignorance, I am young, and I am learning.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
116 Posts
Dude? You lost to a Honda! I don't think the moderators will let you post anymore if they see this.


Of course I'm kidding. I wouldn't worry about losing to a rice rocket, comparing them to the older muscle is comparing apples and oranges. They may sometimes go faster but it's much more satisfying to have the feeling of pure fishtail-making horsepower smoking from the rear wheels. When it comes down to sheer power, there is no matching the old iron.

I would focus on beating the Nova's and the like though. We can't have Fords losing to them. They're sort of in your same class (rear wheel drive, 3,500 pounds, 350+ cubes).

This forum is a great place to start if you want to build the motor. I thought it was also worth it to subscribe to FM so you could read their archives -- there's lots of good information there that guides you step-by-step through many installations. If you're just starting out it's a great reference.

If money is no object I'd go with a stroker 351 W motor ($$$$). But if you want to build with what you got and your on a budget (like most of us are) then I'd start with a a good dual plane intake manifold and 650cfm carb. Then get headers and dual exhaust. These upgrades in a stock motor make a tremendous difference. If you're feeling ambitious, put in a cam at this time. Throw in some aftermarket ingnition and distributor. Then as you get more money you can get some lower gears and posi/locking rear end. My guess is that, that will put you in the 13 second range. To go 12 sec or less consistantly you'll probably have to do some head work, that gets MUCh more expensive and MUCH more complicated.

If I were in your shoes and just starting to learn my way around a car I'd go with the bolt on stuff (carb, intake, headers, rear end, maybe a cam). You'll learn a lot doing it and have fun. Then when that motor goes you'll be ready to built a beast and know how to do it.

Just my 2 cents. Good luck.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
I dunno what my gear ratio is, but my tranny is a POS, and that's what I'm getting ready to change anyways. It's the original stock 3 speed shift-o-matic. I am exploring my options on what automatic transmisions are compatible with the 351w. (Any suggestions?) Converting over to a manual just isn't realistic for me.

I've a 351w with an 850cfm (what's "cfm" mean?) 4 barrel edlebrock carb. I weigh 150 lbs, the curb weight of the car is 2784 lbs. The Door stickers says 2600 something, but she came stock with a 260. I have the best headers that can fit under my hood without chopping my towers, which I do not concider to be an option. And of course she has dual exhaust.

"If you're feeling ambitious, put in a cam at this time."

Cam?

"Throw in some aftermarket ingnition and distributor."

Done.

"that will put you in the 13 second range."

I already run 13.8.

"To go 12 sec or less consistantly you'll probably have to do some head work..."

Such as? I was reading about different kinds of pistons that I can buy, but I don't understand how one can make a difference over the other as far has horse power goes. I can also not find a link which explains the science behind it so that a may understand it.

Like, what and how do forged pistons, crank/stroker help as far as horse power and what should I get? Keep in mind that my engine is pretty much all stock.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
190 Posts
It sounds to me like you need to read up on what the different parts of an engine are and their function. Check out:

http://www.superford.org/garage/engine/index.php

This will help you get started and will enable you to make more sense of how aftermarket cams, pistons, heads, etc. help the performance of your mustang.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
442 Posts
Is she a mustang?(a falcon should be the same) Iam presuming a 64.5 or 65. The shift-o-matic(or cruise o matic) is definatly one of your problems, if I remember correctly you have no controll over your 2nd to 3rd gear shift. Is this correct? If so you could probably get away with a just installing a new valve body. If I am correct in guessing the car (64.5- 66) It came with a 2.79 open rear end, 2.79 turns of the drive shaft=1 turn of the wheels. open: only one wheel does the majority of the pulling. you can check this by jacking the rear of the car and turning one of the rear wheels and watching the other rear wheel,if it turns the opposite direction it is open, if it turns the same direction it is a posi(positive traction both wheels are kinda locked together) . while you have the rear end off the ground, turn the wheel one complete revolution and count how many revolutions the drive shaft turns.ex if the drive shaft turns 3.5 times you have a 3.50 to one gear ratio(which would be desirable for your goals,tire hieght also plays a role 26" is about avg) . You should have a c4 tranny,for a valve body or a whole tranny check out www.lentechautomatics.com they will probably be able to tell you more about your trans than you want to know. as far as your rear end gear ratio, I would sugest if you decide to change it have a professional shop do the work. CFM Cubic feet per minute of air(the engine is essently an air pump) a 850 sounds like a good match for your engine. The cam ie camshaft depending on what you currently have may or may not need to be changed to meet your goals. How does it idle? rough or can you set a glass of water on the air cleaner? the best way to find out is to ask the guy who put the engine together. 13.8 is a respectable time for a street car, there are very few hondas that can match that. did you get a clean run like from a stoplight? KEEP DEFENDING THE BLUE OVAL ON THE STREET... and be safe
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,525 Posts
13.8 is VERY respectable. My older bro ran a 13.6 in his OLD 98 Trans AM LS1 motor. (old means no longer has...GOT A 2001 COBRA). I think you need to figure out exactly what you want do with with the motor now (as MonsterMach would say, Thinking Total Package). You need to write out what you want, and match everything accordingly. Some pieces (cam shaft, Intake manifold, stall converter, gears, carb) all act in unison (sp?) together, and need to be matched with the same goals in mind. Once all that is done, The first thing that you can do that will give you impressive results is gears. (I did not do it, but a good friend reccomended it to me...ofcourse I did not listen, but I went on a differant path, and did the a lot of stuff).
Again, the thing that I think is the most important is just knowing what you want to do from the very begining, and not change your mind (a lot) once you start.

Enough rambling....

Hope it helped...a little..everyone that posted ahead of me I am sure knows a lot more then me, but that is a little of what I picked up. Ohh yea, who was it and why did you think an 850 sounds about right for his car? (did I read it right either?) MonsterMach has an 850 on his 351 C, and that is truly, "The Beast".

Jeff Given
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
330 Posts
I would think that a 850 is way overkill for that engine. To be able to use that much CFM, you would need to rev your engine at like 7500 to be able to need that much fuel. At 6000 RPM the most that you would need is a 650. Am I wrong here? Is there any advantages on geting an overkill carb for an engine that will never take it. Please enlighten me.
Thanks
Matt
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
Thanks for the advice and links, everyone. I've been reading up a lot. Now that I understand most of the science involved I fell much more confident in choosing which tranny to put in next and what to spend my next paycheck on.


Yes, she's a 64.5 Mustang. The engine is a 1978 351w.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,129 Posts
I dont have much to add, but I should say that I agree with what has been said about the package, you will need to understand that there will be pro`s and con`s and all will need to be taken into consideration when make decisions on your package.

For instance I would suggest a 5 speed and 3:73 gears or 4:11`s, the 5 speed would let you drive on the freeway with out overreving the motor, and you will have awesume off the line acceleration. But if you stay with low gears and a 3 speed auto or 4 speed manual, the freeway would be pretty much off limits. Also if you are running an 850 carb, it is much to big unless you have a very stout motor with significant power levels. I run low 13`s with a 650 cfm carb, and mid 13`s with a 600 cfm carb with a 302 in a 65 mustang. If you want some quick results go with lower gears and a 600 or 650 double pumper, that should get you a couple tenths at the track, a C4 instead of the crusie-o-matic will probably net you a few more. There are so many options it would take all the space available on this site to list them all, grab every mustang book you can, surf the net for mustang sites and read untill you puke, learn from our misfortunes and error`s and our experience. Think ahead, the best place to start is to figure out how fast you want to go, from there the rest is just $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,129 Posts
BTW the 13.20 @ 106 was with stock mustang iron heads with small valves

Intake 1.78 ?
Exhaust 1.45
I believe the older 351 engines had 1.84 Intake and a 1.54 exhaust.

I have not had the new setup at the track or the dyno yet. It should be over 300hp at the tires

A lot can be done with a little without breaking the bank.
 
1 - 13 of 13 Posts
Top