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Discussion Starter #1
Hello all! I am looking for some advice. I have an IMCA https://imca.com/ Modified that I have previously run with a Chevy engine. (I'm not proud of it..lol) I am tired of loosing engines due to the design flaws in the SBC. I am a big time Ford guy and have had Ford collector cars since I was 14.

What I am looking for is advice on building a 600 HP or so Iron head, wet sump Ford on a budget. I build my own engines due to the fact that I don't have the finances to pay someone else to do it. Weight is a factor, however I have to weigh cost vs. weight savings. I am not sure on whether I want to go with a lighter 302 based motor or a heavier 351W based motor. As cool as they are, I do not want to build a Clevlor based on what I have been reading around the web.

The track that I will be primarily racing at is a relatively high banked, dirt, 1/3 mile oval momentum track.

It will be running on methanol, I would like to have 13:1 to 14:1 compression ratio. I have a MSD ignition with a MSD pro-billet Distributor. An AED 850CFM alchohol carb.

The rules are:
I have to run a 7800 rpm rev limiter.
Any American make steel engine block allowed. Aftermarket and OEM performance blocks allowed. Cast iron or aluminum intake manifolds only. Steel cylinder heads and oil pan only. Flat tappet cam/lifters and stud-mounted rocker arms only. Magnetic steel retainers only. No shaft, pedestal, or offset rocker arms, titanium engine components, stud girdles or mushroom lifters. Lifter diameter and configuration must match OEM passenger block. OEM firing order cannot be changed (GM: 1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2). All engines must be able to be used in conventional passenger car without alterations. Engine mounts cannot be removed or altered. Castings and fittings must not be changed. No machine work on outside of engine (no lightweight engine blocks). All belt driven accessories must be on front of engine. ‘Wet’ sump oiling system only.


Thank You,

Steve
 

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Steve, I highly recommend that you call Midnight Machine in Maynard Iowa, and bounce some things off of him. Joe Roete is by far the leading Ford modified engine builder here in NE Iowa. IMCA Mod driver Darin Duffy runs some of his Ford pieces every now and then. He wont feed you full of crap and will talk to you for quite a while expecting nothing in return. HE may be hard to get ahold of at first, but when you do tell him Sean Walker sent you to him. I have misplaced his number at the moment but will get it to you tomorrow sometime.

Sean Walker, IMCA tech inspector, Independence Motor Speedway.
 

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Hello all! I am looking for some advice. I have an IMCA https://imca.com/ Modified that I have previously run with a Chevy engine. (I'm not proud of it..lol) I am tired of loosing engines due to the design flaws in the SBC. I am a big time Ford guy and have had Ford collector cars since I was 14.

What I am looking for is advice on building a 600 HP or so Iron head, wet sump Ford on a budget. I build my own engines due to the fact that I don't have the finances to pay someone else to do it. Weight is a factor, however I have to weigh cost vs. weight savings. I am not sure on whether I want to go with a lighter 302 based motor or a heavier 351W based motor. As cool as they are, I do not want to build a Clevlor based on what I have been reading around the web.

The track that I will be primarily racing at is a relatively high banked, dirt, 1/3 mile oval momentum track.

It will be running on methanol, I would like to have 13:1 to 14:1 compression ratio. I have a MSD ignition with a MSD pro-billet Distributor. An AED 850CFM alchohol carb.

The rules are:
I have to run a 7800 rpm rev limiter.
Any American make steel engine block allowed. Aftermarket and OEM performance blocks allowed. Cast iron or aluminum intake manifolds only. Steel cylinder heads and oil pan only. Flat tappet cam/lifters and stud-mounted rocker arms only. Magnetic steel retainers only. No shaft, pedestal, or offset rocker arms, titanium engine components, stud girdles or mushroom lifters. Lifter diameter and configuration must match OEM passenger block. OEM firing order cannot be changed (GM: 1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2). All engines must be able to be used in conventional passenger car without alterations. Engine mounts cannot be removed or altered. Castings and fittings must not be changed. No machine work on outside of engine (no lightweight engine blocks). All belt driven accessories must be on front of engine. ‘Wet’ sump oiling system only.


Thank You,

Steve
600 HP oval track engine , a aftermarket block is a must , if reliable is wanted.
you said nothing about cubic inch limit . whats thev limit ?
.9,2 deck hight afdtermarket block
takes money to build with reliable parts , good machine work.
what your budget ?
where did you finish with the sbc ? that wioll tell me a lot . what was the sbc build ? also tells
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Thank You Mustang, I will be calling him in the next few days.

Dan,

There is no cubic inch limit. I'm not sure exactly what my budget is at this time. (Working on sponsorship, waiting to see tax return, etc.)
My last SBC was as follows:

.060 over 350 4 bolt 358 cu in
Dart Iron Eagle heads 49cc combustion chamber 215cc intake runner 2.05/1.60 valves
SRP forged flat top pistons (made 13.4:1 compression)
Howards Sportsman 6" H-beam rotating assy. 3.480 stroke
Cam, a friend speced and won't tell me the numbers. Solid lifter
Harland Sharp roller rockers
Professional Products Hurricane Intake

This engine was acceptable but I could have used more.
 

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There is one advatage to using a ford for this class, or used to be. Used to be a claimer class for 200 bux! Dunno if they still do that or not but mosy of the chebby guys would shy away from claiming a ford cause 1 they didnt know a damn thing about fords and 2 its unusable to them as all the changes needed to run the ford (ie trannys mounts etc..)
If there is no CI limit, Id build a 408W. With that type of build you wouldnt HAVE to spin it so high to get off the corners. One guy I ran with back in the day used BBC, and wouldnt turn it over 5800 where the SBC guys was winging them to the moon. That car pulled like a freight train, and did really well....
 

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Discussion Starter #7
You are right, that is a plus. I can bet I will never be claimed by a competitor unless I start to dominate the competition. I don't see that happening since I am racing against some pretty big names in the IMCA world. Some of these guys are among the best in the business. I'm a decent shoe, but certainly not the best.

The downfall is that I have to carry all my own spare parts since there won't be anyone to borrow from like I can now.

One thing I didn't realize is that Ford SB is substantially lighter than a SBC... http://fixrambler.com/engineweightchart.txt Just adding to the mystery of why and how SBCs became so popular in the racing world...

25. ENGINE CLAIMING RULES: Refer to International Motor Contest Association – IMCA for claim eligibility requirements.
(A)
$1,050 cash, or $100 and exchange, claim on engine, flywheel and balancing plates ($25 goes to wrecker and $25 to official for each engine). Claimed driver has option of accepting cash, or exchanging engines with claiming driver.
(B)
Claim does not include - 1. clutch, 2. pressure plate, 3. bellhousing, 4. headers, 5. carburetor, 6. starter, 7. motor mounts, 8. oil/temp. sending units, 9. carburetor spacer, 10. fan and pulleys, 11. clutch ball, 12. clutch arm, 13. throw out bearing, 14. dip stick, 15. water pump, 16. fuel pump, rod and plate, 17. distributor, 18. plug wires, 19. water outlet and restrictor, 20. breathers.
 

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A few years ago there was a local IMCA Modifed racer with very deep pockets that used BIG Clevlands very sucessfully. They also played a little with a couple of Windsors. I witnessed one of their 393 Windsors make 520 on the dyno uncorrected at 5000 ft. altitude. It can be done but be prepaired to spend some bucks.
Good Luck.
 

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520 hp is really behind the 8 ball these days. Most engines in the IMCA A mod are pro built at 700+ hp because there has been no claiming in the class for years. It can be done, dont get me wrong, but EVERYONE is running their best stuff on a weekly basis.
 

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... As cool as they are, I do not want to build a Clevlor based on what I have been reading around the web.
Steve - what have you been reading?

David
 

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Hello all! I am looking for some advice. I have an IMCA https://imca.com/ Modified that I have previously run with a Chevy engine. (I'm not proud of it..lol) I am tired of loosing engines due to the design flaws in the SBC. I am a big time Ford guy and have had Ford collector cars since I was 14.

What I am looking for is advice on building a 600 HP or so Iron head, wet sump Ford on a budget. I build my own engines due to the fact that I don't have the finances to pay someone else to do it. Weight is a factor, however I have to weigh cost vs. weight savings. I am not sure on whether I want to go with a lighter 302 based motor or a heavier 351W based motor. As cool as they are, I do not want to build a Clevlor based on what I have been reading around the web.

The track that I will be primarily racing at is a relatively high banked, dirt, 1/3 mile oval momentum track.

It will be running on methanol, I would like to have 13:1 to 14:1 compression ratio. I have a MSD ignition with a MSD pro-billet Distributor. An AED 850CFM alchohol carb.

The rules are:
I have to run a 7800 rpm rev limiter.
Any American make steel engine block allowed. Aftermarket and OEM performance blocks allowed. Cast iron or aluminum intake manifolds only. Steel cylinder heads and oil pan only. Flat tappet cam/lifters and stud-mounted rocker arms only. Magnetic steel retainers only. No shaft, pedestal, or offset rocker arms, titanium engine components, stud girdles or mushroom lifters. Lifter diameter and configuration must match OEM passenger block. OEM firing order cannot be changed (GM: 1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2). All engines must be able to be used in conventional passenger car without alterations. Engine mounts cannot be removed or altered. Castings and fittings must not be changed. No machine work on outside of engine (no lightweight engine blocks). All belt driven accessories must be on front of engine. ‘Wet’ sump oiling system only.


Thank You,

Steve
No CID Limit?

Dart SHP 9.5 Cleveland Mains
Whatever Bore you want to start with up to 4.125.
4.25 stroke crank Internal Balance
RHS Cast Iron Heads 215cc/58cc chamber
Final Build size is 454 CID
6.25 rod with a flat top piston
@ 454 x 1.35 is 613hp and that should be so easy to do a caveman could do it. 1.5 hp per ci would be 681HP and that should be easily reachable too.

With a flat tappet cam requirement you want to run as a large lifter diameter as possible I would think.
I would call Mike Jones
Jones Cam Designs
Denver, NC 28037 704-489-2449
[email protected]
and get his recomendation.

Bullet still has Harold Brookshires cam profiles listed on their website too so they would be worth looking at too for a cam.

http://www.bulletcams.com/

I would at least run the .904 lifter diameter.
 
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