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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I completed the overhaul process for my 67 C4. With B & M shift kit all foward gears work. Reverse may or may not engage when it's cold, will not engage in reverse when hot and sometimes enages when warm. I bench tested both clutch packs with air but did not air test once assembled in the trans body. When selecting reverse, I hear what I believe is the clutch piston but get no power out the back end. I carefully installed and adjusted the rear band. Re adjusted the rear band after running for 1 day, and although it was not out of adjustment, I adjusted for 2.5 turns instead of 3. It made no difference. As part of the rebuild, I installed a new reverse servo. The valve body is a bit in question because I didn't have the B & M separator plate perfectly aligned and so a few of the outer radiuses of the clearance holes in the plate for attaching to the trans body were bent slightly. I did include the gasket when reassembling the valve body. I'm searching for a used valve body now but wanted to put this out for any pointers on what I can do before pulling and perhaps replacing the valve body.
Thanks, Bob
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Selecting 1 on the floor shift console does not force the transmission into 1st gear... it goes into and stays in 2nd. Yet when I use "D" (drive) the car starts out in 1st and shifts nicely to 2nd and then 3rd. Likewise the trans downshifts from 3rd to 2nd and then to 1st while in D. It will not manually go into 1st. Not sure if this helps isolate servo or valve body or band or ???

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: locorebob on 12/5/06 10:01am ]</font>
 

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Sounds like either the rear band/servo or the VB. If 2nd gear is ok, then the direct clutch should be ok. Any chance the reverse servo piston seal got damaged?
 

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When you put the transmission into Drive it starts in 1st, shifts to 2nd and then shifts to 3rd.
When you put the car in 1st, it starts in second and does not shift.
It sounds to me like your linkage is messed up. It should go into 1st with no shifting when you put it into first. When you put it into 2nd it should start in second and not shift.
What does it do in neutral? How about Park?

Set it up on blocks, diconnect the shifter linkage and shift it by hand at the transmission lever. Does it go into all the gears this way?

Since it goes into high then we can be sure that the Reverse / High Clutch is working and that the forward clutch is working. It goes into second so the second gear servo is working (it uses the same forward clutches that all forward gears use). Low gear works just not held in low gear. That means the one-way clutch works.
Do you have six different positions on the shifter pattern? Park, Rev., Neutral, Drive, 2nd, and 1st
You should have five shift detents from one extreme of the shifter pattern to the other and the same five back (five position changes - six positions)
I believe you either have internal or external linkage problems - Are you sure that you had the manual valve captured with the linkage when you put the valve body back in?
Paul
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I was real careful installing the piston, spring and cover with square "O" ring. I don't think I damaged it. I guess I could remove the cover and check the piston, however I'm confident it is not damaged. I cleaned the contact surface with emory cloth etc.. cleaned and lubed, tested the piston with a manual few strokes.. it seemed fine...then installed and capped it. If the piston deal is damaged, I suspect it would have to be damaged real bad to have the symptoms I'm describing. I just llooked at the old piston and confirmed it was a Ford branded part, I'm will to bet the replacement is a cheap one from foreign soil. Not sure it that has anything to do with immediate problem, but more with longevity etc. I'll plan on removing the piston for inspection when I drop the valve body once I find a stock valve body as a replacement. The ID tag on my front servo cover indicates "WCZ" for the tranny code. Not sure how difficult it will be to locate a virgin valve body that I can clean up and try. If I decide to remove the piston only for inspection, my guess is that it's located high enough on the case to avoid loosing to much fluid while at the same time making it difficult to reinstall and to get the square "O" ring correctly sealed.. given the tight clearance between tunnel and tranny.
Thanks, Bob
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Paul, The linkage is OK, I could stand the car on jacks and manually shift, but how would I know if selection 1 is starting in 1st or second gear? I mean when the car is operating, I can feel the difference between 1st and second, I just don't know how I could detect a difference between second and 1st when the car is up. Maybe it would be obvious when I did it by the whining of the rear end etc. Maybe I'll try try it this week-end. I feel pretty good about the manual valve to shift linkage relationship. It needed some fine adjustment along with nuetral safety switch to get it right. Park is park and neutral is neutral. It just starts in second when in selector position 1.
Yes, I have P, R,N, D, 2 & 1
Even if I did, I should be able to hold the black button on the selector knob and slide the shifterr on both sides of "R" until I feel the manual valve pick the reverse detent shouldn't I? I'll try that later today... it's too cold this morning and I haven't got the choke working yet. I'm in Tucson but we've had some weather lately...
I do hear what I believe is the clutch pack actuating when I select "R", so I suspect the reverse detent is found when the selector is on "R".
Can you hear the servo operating when it operates? Or is it only possible to hear the clutch pack actuating while you're in the car? Can you breifly explain what happens when reverse is selcted? Does the clutch actuate first and then the piston and how far does the servo piston travel? should you be able to hear the servo piston?
I checked and know for sure the manual valve is properly engaged with shift linkage.
Thanks, Bob
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
One more question, do I have the same potential to burn up my clutches if I leave the sector in "R" when the tranny does not engage? I did this to one set of Indy Red clutches because I didn;t replace the clutch piston seals first time around. By leaving the selctor in "D" thinking it would eventually engage I burned them up. I;ve been careful not to leave the selector in "R" since the trans is not enaging for fear of burning up another set of clutches.
Thanks, Bob
 

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Forgot to mention the linkage....sounds like you have it adjusted ok.
You shouldn't burn up any clutches, if 3rd gear is working ok (I said 2nd in the above post ...sorry) it also uses the hi/rev (direct) clutch pack.....but why leave it in R anyway? It has an issue and if it did engage after sitting there for 5 mins, its really no help.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I tried holding the the button down to essentially perform a shift by trying to feeling the mnual valve detents as opposed to the hard stops on the floor shifter... same results. I hear hat I belive is the clutch pack actuating when I hover over reverse indicator. I learned something interesting after arriving at work and that is; with the brake applied, if I quickly shift from D or (1 or 2) directly into "R" then it engages. Anything else and it doesn't engage... that is from N or P it will not engage into reverse after selcting "R". It was repeatable... I did it 10 times in the parking lot just now. I'll try it when cold to see if it behaves the same. Good point, no reason to leave in Reverse hoping it will engage.. I guess maybe only for wishful thinking... hoping you don't have to push "flintstone" style out of the filling station because someone backed in front of you.
Thanks, Bob
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Even when cold, warm or hot. I can get the tranny to engage in reverse by selecting R if and only if I have it in Drive first...and it has to happen quickly. Intuitively I would say it has something to do with the valve body, but I don't have much experience to base from. I picked up a valve body from some guys here in town that run a race car shop. I paid 30 for it and it's junk...stripped holes etc. The local junk yards have been scrapping there C4's.
Any tips on where a guy can find a virgin valve body for "WCZ" 1967 C4?
Thanks, Bob
 

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I think the shift valves??? could be sticking or something like that.Bumping in drive first is enough to move whatever it is to allow reverse.
I had a similar thing years ago with a c6 would hold in gear even in 'N' .Going to reverse first then back to 'N' would release it. Found the shift valves were hanging up a little i think from case twist since it did have a fair bit of power possibly twisting the case.Would do it every few months after a bit of racing..Clean it all up and free the valves would be good till it's next freshen up..
It's worth a try ,something strange going on in there.
 

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On 2006-12-05 01:34, cmf60 wrote:
Sounds like either the rear band/servo or the VB. If 2nd gear is ok, then the direct clutch should be ok. Any chance the reverse servo piston seal got damaged?
Second gear has nothing to do with the direct clutch.
 

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On 2006-12-05 11:24, cmf60 wrote:
You shouldn't burn up any clutches, if 3rd gear is working ok (I said 2nd in the above post ...sorry) it also uses the hi/rev (direct) clutch pack....
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Greg, When you say "shift valves" do mean all the shift valves in general or just the manual valvwe, 1-2 shift valve or2-3 shift valve? In my VB diagram, don't see reference any type of reverse shift valve. I still have the ball bearing installed in the end gallery of the cut-back valve (per shift kit instructions). Could this be causing problems?
Thanks, Bob
 

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Cut back valve won't affect it.
I mean the 1-2 + 2-3 shift valves.If they're not returning fully may block the flow of oil to reverse.. You'd need to check a flow diagram and see the oil flow for reverse where it runs through might give you a clue.
 
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