Ford Muscle Cars Tech Forum banner

1 - 20 of 23 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
160 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I am putting a roller cam in this week. It will cost like 1600! But i think it will be worth it. Crane Cam guy said that besides more hp then other cams, rollers will make your rpms rise faster. He said keep you hand on the shifter knob because you will be shifting faster. Is this true? I thought because of the faster ramping rollers have.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,129 Posts
Less friction, reduced oil temp, reduced engine temp, more HP, rev a little faster, reduced wear on valves, rockers, guides.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,129 Posts
I used to have that answer, but I can only say that I think it is around 80* average reduced oil temp. I am not sure about that but that is what is coming to mind, but I think that number is measured at the rocker and not overall oil temp.

Can anyone else give a better answer, I am getting old and senile.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,470 Posts
On 2002-04-16 21:36, Nastystang wrote:
reduced wear on valves, rockers, guides.
This part is totally untrue.

The extremely fast acceleration rates and high lifts of roller (and their required mega stiff valve springs) put incredible loads on the whole valvetrain. Valves, rockers and guides don't live as long as they would with a flat tappet cam. Solid not only jerk the valve off the seat, they also slam it back down... which has a way of wearing a valve job out pronto. Rollers are made of steel instead of iron, like flat tappet cams. Therefore, they are incompatible with the iron gears of most distributers. With these cams, sacrificial bronze gears are used. These wear quickly, and must be changed about as often as the oil... As an option, some cams are available with pressed on iron gears.

Solid roller lifters don't have that long of a lifespan with extended use. They wear out, and if they turn sideways, there go the cam lobes. It's common practice to install screens in the lifter valley to catch any roller parts that happen to get spilled in event of failure. On Fords, the cam is just driven by a small pin that hooks it to a top timing gear. Since the forces required to drive big rollers (and their stiff springs) is immense, the pins often break... when this happens, the valves stop moving and get hammered by the pistons, killing the engine. Some will 'double pin' the cams to avoid this.

Solid rollers are for top level racing. Stick with Hydraulic rollers and flat tappets for extended use.

Some 'street' solid rollers aren't quite as aggressive as the others, but aren't quite as effective either.


Good Luck!

_________________
Mike Burch, 66 mustang real street
302 4-speed 289 heads, 10.63 @ 129.3
http://www.geocities.com/carbedstangs/cmml_mburch.html
http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/healey/367

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: n2omike on 4/17/02 9:57am ]</font>
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
777 Posts
On 2002-04-16 21:52, n2omike wrote:
Since the forces required to drive big rollers (and their stiff springs) is immense, the pins often break... when this happens, the valves stop moving and get hammered by the pistons, killing the engine.
Yep, been there, done that. The last time I had one break (last year), it took out all the roller lifters, bent all the valves, bent six 3/8" pushrods, 2 roller rockers, and broke the main webbing in the block on #2.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,745 Posts
I have to agree with Mike and Kid.
I can also say been there, done that. I've wiped out cams when the link bar bends. I have used up several push rods. Also broke a timing gear pin. It bent some valves, but I was able to save the engine. Lucky I guess.
My point is, if you want to play with the solid rollers, be prepared for some expensive failures some day. It will happen if you are gonna run it hard.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,551 Posts
Knock on wood, but never had a problem with Rollers. Also, I'm still running the same bronze gear I had 2 years and about 1000 passes ago. No problems yet, and it still looks new. Trick is to drill the little galley plug directly behind the dist gear, it will last much longer due to the constant oil spray.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,700 Posts
Hmmm ... I run the "None Sacraficial" STEEL gear" on my distributors with roller cam ... that is if the cam is not fitted with iron band for distributor gear (which many are), then I run a factory style iron distributor gear.

I ran the bronze grear once ... lasted around 1,200 miles.

As for any of the rest of the "Nightmare" problems ... so far I have been fine ... sounds pretty scarry though


_________________

Larry Madsen
Las Vegas Nevada



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: MonsterMach on 4/17/02 11:13am ]</font>
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
777 Posts
I never had any problems with the gear failing, and I kept a close eye on it. I ran the same gear for 4 years before I replaced it "just because". But I broke that pin 3 times.
Every time except for the last one, it never hurt the block. Although one time it did cock a piston in the bore when the valve smacked it and crack the cylinder. Not everyone has the same amount of problems I do. A buddy I race with has a 377 C in a tube car, and he has never broke a pin, and he runs nothing but Crower stuff. Makes me wonder if Lunati (the ones I have broke) puts too soft of pins in their roller cams?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
539 Posts
MonsterMach
If your still having problems with the distributor gear, MSD is getting ready to release a new Composite gear that is stronger than the steel one and gauranteed not to break.
Met with rep last week. Out of the blue i asked him about giving me a new gear because I had purchased a new crank trigger, Lowpro Dis, 7AL, and new coil. He said he would send me one as soon as they did the release
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,700 Posts
Blown ... I'm not sure I would call it (what I had with the bronze gear) a problem ... pretty much a N2OMike said, those things are indeed "Sacraficial" gears.

Once I found the steel gear, I just went to that and have had zero problems ... My understanding is the steel gear with steel cam should last as long as any factory situation would last.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
14,758 Posts
Let me know about the MSD gear. I can't believe people are having trouble with cam pins breaking. I have run rollers in 460's for years with the only failure from rod debris. I run over 700 pounds open pressure & ran a chain until this year. What are all these pins made of? Mine are H-11 TS. Also $1600 to go roller? Seems pricy. I have that in my heads complete, springs, tit. retainers, stud girdle Ferrea valves & billet covers... am I just lucky... or cheap
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
355 Posts
Why not go with a steel dist gear? That way shouldn't you be able to buy a steel cam and have the cam gear made of the same material and no pin in the cam?

I considered dong the conversion and had all kinds of questions about the performance differences. (for more like $400 though 'cause I have a stock spyder *free* and would only need the small base circle cam with proper pushrods which I had to buy anyway)

PS - I ended up using a flat hydraulic because I was concerned about the strength of small base circle cams.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,470 Posts
Masterd,

You're best bet would be to put that money into a set of heads. Those stockers are all done by around 5000 rpm or so... a big roller isn't going to help much. Get a nice set of AFR 165 or 185's and be happy. These will make a WAY bigger difference than a solid roller with your stockers.

Good Luck!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
777 Posts
On 2002-04-17 09:10, mustangzrule wrote:
PS - I ended up using a flat hydraulic because I was concerned about the strength of small base circle cams.
The first time a pin broke it slightly marred the camshaft. So I sent it back and they reground it on a small base circle. I never broke it, or had any problems with it after that. (but I also used a tool steel pin instead of the pin sent in the camshaft). I had 250#'s on the seat, and around 680# open.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
455 Posts
Well, glad I cheaped out and stuck with a hydraulic flat tappet for my 393 Stroker Windsor. That $1600 seemed high to me too until I thought back to what it costs to get a conversion for a non-roller block (Although, Crane offers them for around $700).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,700 Posts
I've built two full roller motors for my self in the past two years ... I have to believe $1,600.00 covers the entire valvetrain.

My units were both Crane (one mechanical and one hydraulic), the cams ran right at $300.00 each lifters ran right at $300.00 per set ... then you get into pushrods, springs, retainers, studs, millwork for studs, guideplates ... yada, yada yada. There goes $1,600.00.



_________________

Larry Madsen
Las Vegas Nevada



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: MonsterMach on 4/18/02 7:27am ]</font>
 
1 - 20 of 23 Posts
Top