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Discussion Starter #1
I am considering swithching the cleveland in my 71 torino to a 351w. The engine parts are miss matched and it dosen't perform like I would like it to. The short block is a kragen rebuilt put in by the previous owner, which I think has low compression. I put in a lopy cam that isn't lopy, and it has 4bbl heads and port plates. The engine has a 600cfm holley and edelbrock intake and hooker comp headers. The engine is lacking something. It isn't very powerful and I think it's because the parts aren't working together. So I am thinking if I have to rebuild the cleveland why not go to a windsor. Parts are easier to find and cheaper and it should bolt to the tranny and motor mounts. My question is will my shaker hood still fit, and I would like about 400hp, whats a good combo to run? Thanks for your help.
 

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The problem is the 4V heads and low compression.

I know I'll catch alot of hell for this, but 4V heads really do not perform well on street cars, unless its like a hot street setup with big cam and lots of compression and steep gearing.

In a mild cruiser (Im assumming this describes your car), the 4V heads actually hurt the performance and drivability.

A 351C needs to make torque to move such a heavy car, and the 2V heads would really wake it up.

You should consider swapping the big heads for a set of 2V heads or Aussie 2V heads...the later would seriously wake up that motor!

You'll need a new intake and headers to fit the 2V heads, but its still cheaper than a whole other motor!
 

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My Opinion ...

If you are looking to build for lower end/RPM power ... go to the Winsdor.

I'm a Cleveland guy though and would never do that ... However, it doesn't sound like you have any sort of fetish going toward (or against) either one


I think it's safe to say you will be able to get more power ... easier ... out of your 4V Cleveland ... The one big plus here is ... You already have it. To do that though, it will be High RPM power.

I'm not a big fan of "port plate" use in order to chase lower RPM power, I'd go to 2V heads to do that ... There in comes the Windor thinking ... If you are going to buy parts like heads, Windsor may suit your needs better.

My Two Cents
 

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wow...tuff decision

There are a few C motor guys in here...but I think one thing that seems disappointing is when you compare C motors with W motors that are using todays killer aftermarket heads. That...is big time apples to oranges. To me you have to really come to grips with the engine your a dealing with and forget looking at the others. I had a 70 stang with a 351C 4V engine(quench chambers)...but that was 20 yrs ago and no wheennie ass 351W could compare. Now though...with the knowledge of head porting there is combined with the slew of awesome cyl heads you can get for the W motor. The C motor aint so awesome any more. It is only awesome when comparing the factory heads and ALL the guys running badass W motors in here are using factory castings for door stops
..I hate to say this but the 4V open chamber C heads ford should have never bothered with...they are junk. The Boss 302/351/351 4V C head was developed for high rpm racing and that is all it can do well. A 351C with 4V quench chamber heads with flat top pistons(11-1 compression), healthy solid lifter cam(and I mean HEALTHY), torker intake,750-850 holley dp and 1 3/4 long tubes combined with a true 3500 stall converter and 4.56 gears...then you got something that will pull hard 3800-6800+. If you want a mid range torque 351 with 6000 rpm shift points....build a windsor with any number of the smaller port volume(170-200 cc) aftermarket cyl heads. Want something that pulls like an old well built 428 CJ with mods....buld a stroker Windsor
 

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What headers do you have, and do you have power steering or a 4 speed? Ive been looking for headers that will fit without problems for a long time, havent been able to find any yet for my 71 torino 351c 4v, with 4spd and power steering. With the shaker I would think of just rebuilding the C, cause the shaker probably wont fit with a W
 

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Discussion Starter #6
My headers are hooker comps. I have a c-6 with power steering. They suck... I had to use the power steering drop bracket and had to have it lengthened like two more inches and it ripped the bolts out of the frame. I had to have it welded back on. As soon as I decide what to do I am going to get shorty headers.
 

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Split decision. If you want a cruiser with some grunt, Stanley may be right, get some Aussie 2V heads (maybe pistons for compression) and you will wake that thing up. Of course that POS Kragen rebuild can be checked over and corrected while it's all apart.
If you want a kickass car go with the Windsor, aftermarket heads and don't look back. Go with a stroker to deliver the torque to get that big old beast rolling. May have to fiddle like hell to get the shaker to match up. Drop base, cut and weld etc.
 

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hey dude i swapped out my original cleveland for a windsor. the windsor was my 18th birthday present from my mechanic father.

and besides dude i hear from other peope that you can still get like 12-15mpg on the highway on a windsor with 400hp roughly. you have to be SUCKING YOUR OWN **** to expecting that out of a cleveland. a stocked cleveland with 2.75 gears haves to be lucky to get that. my windsor has just enough power to drive around and play and still get 10-12mpg playing in the city. cant do that with a cleveland.

besides, windsor parts are cheaper and easier to find. also funny thing is, you might get away with saying it's a 302 to stupid chevy foos. i always say my windsor is a 302 to f#%!en dumbasses around here where i live. to other teens that is and to chevy people whom don't know what to look for.

hope i helped you a lil bit bud.

ps.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: XolieX on 3/28/02 2:02pm ]</font>
 

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Your biggest problem with the 4V heads is that little 600cfm carb. What intake are you running? An Edelbrock Performer? Swap out the carb and intake for a Weiand X-celerator and a 750, I like the Speed Demon. If you don't know what the cam is, then swap the cam while you are at it, try the Crane Energizer 284, that'll give you 554 lift and a usable rpm range of 2800-6200+. Next is the ignition, don't low-buck the ignition, get a blueprinted Duraspark or MSD dizzy and go with a good MSD coil and ignition box. What are your rear gears? With the C6, go ahead and install something in the 3.89:1 range. Now that should wake that 4V Clevo up and it will cost less than building and swapping a Windsor, unless, of course, you already have the W.

--J
 

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Discussion Starter #11
The intake is an edelbrock performer, and I tried a 750 and couldn;t get it to run right. The cam is supose to be a keith black grind with around 510 lift. The tranny is a stock c-6 with a mild shift kit, the gears are I think around 3.89 or 4.11. Those are the only ones that came that year and at 70 mph the car is taching at 3400rpms. I would love to put a 460 in it but I am a college student and don;t have a lot of money so. Also if anyone knows where I can get a passenger side quarter panel for the 71 torino I would appreciate it. Thanks for you help
 
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