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Discussion Starter #1
Back into the classic/muscle car thing after a decade-plus hiatus.

Vehicle is a '74 Torino. 351C/C6 combo. Stock frame and suspension (performance springs, shocks, bushings, close ratio steering box, etc., but no frame mods or tube control arms). All factory stuff stays (A/C, power windowsm power brakes, full interior, sound system, etc.).

Car will be a cruiser/weekend tire smoker with the option of grand touring, eventually.

Thinking about a 408 stroker instead of just building a modded 351C. The price differential doesn't appear to be too bad. I have to buy pistons, rods, valvetrain, head work, etc. anyhow, so the only adder I can think of would be the crank, and of course making sure all the machine work is done properly.

Am I really off base here? Not interested in a Windsor or Clevor or big-block. I know it will cost a little more to build a Cleveland, but I'm OK with that.

No replacement for displacement. Since it is not a race car, I can't think of a better way to get more torque "under the curve" from 1500 rpm to about 6000 rpm, or so, except for adding forced induction of some type, which I don't want.

It will have roller valvetrain.

Venture to guess horsepower? Target is at least 325 horsepowe to the wheels with as wide a powerband as possible. Of course more is always better. Think it's within reason?

408 stroker 351C. Appropriate forged pistons and rods. Reworked Aussie or Edelbrock Performer heads. Target 10.25:1 compression ratio. Edelbrock Air-Gap intake. 1.75" headers. CD multi-spark ignition. 750cfm vacuum secondaries, properly set up.

3.55 to 3.9 rear gears TBD

Cam - TBD The machine shop I'm using recommends custom ground cam for all their builds.

Eventually I'll add a Gear Vendors UD/OD unit to get the grand touring option so highway rpm is in the sane range.

What do you guys think. Throw darts or stones. Bring me back to reality.

Thanks in advance.
 

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I was looking at the AFD heads for my Cleveland project. All I have done so far is a fresh .030 over short block with forged pistons and a box of parts like cam, roller rockers, timing set, lifters, intake, carb, headers, etc.

I'm hoping to get close at least 450 at the back of the engine and 400 torque and this is with not a stroker crank. With the 408 I would think you should be able to wring 500+ out of it with the right combination of parts and it would still have some decent manners.

Forgot to add, I'm planning to go solid lifters and put in the oil restricter kit to keep from starving the bottom end. Also, regardless of which heads you get, you want one piece valves.

I would say that having it performance balanced would be manditory as well.
 

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325hp is an easy one... It'll make quite abit more than that. A factory rated '69-70 4bbl C motor was rated @ 290 and thats way conservative... 350 or so to start with would be my best guesstimate... The 408C will start at 400hp pretty easily...

The guys on Horsepower (powerblocktv.com) just did a pair of 51's (Clev and Wind) and stacking the deck for the windsor (made a 408 Clevor out of it) it put up a no. of 468hp with almost 500ftlb) the straight clev build was a .030 over 51 (357ci) and with 2v heads was knocking on 400 hp and 400ftlb.

http://www.powerblocktv.com/player/show_player.php?ep_num=HP2012-11&ep_show=HP

That is the vid link to the show
 

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Discussion Starter #4
What kind of revs do you guys expect to turn? I know we can make way more hp than I'm looking for. I'm probably overbuilding the engine, but that's OK, I only want to do it once, and I want it to stay together for a long time. I plan on staying around a 6000 rpm limit, maybe 6500 if I can get enough bottom end power.

Raw horsepower figures aren't always the best indicator for street engines. Depends how peaky the curves are. I've seen dyno champs with completely unusable power bands.

The numbers you are quoting are raw engine hp, and not rwhp I believe? Correct me if I'm wrong here.

Lots of torque and a flat torque curve is what I'm after.

I haven't checked yet, but I'm sure there are several chassis dyno and tuning shops within an hour of where I live. That gets Akron, Canton, Cleveland, and Youngstown. It will be an interesting build. Just hope to avoid any big mistakes.

Any of you guys run the Aussie 2V closed-chamber heads? Debating whether to use the set I have or drop the coin on a set of aluminum heads. Fully assembled ready to install I'll probably have around $1500-$1800 in a set of iron heads (includes a pocket port, bowl blending, and gasket matching massage treatment). The Performer RPM heads are around $2200 from Summit.

One-piece valves are a must. My real job has to do with playing with big stationary engines. I've seen to many two-piece valves cause a bunch of damage. Definitely worth the $s for the insurance.


Hottarod,

What kind of compression ratio are you calculating? Dished, or flat-top pistons? You already picked your pistons, so you may have already chosen your heads by default, or at least limited your selection. I don't know the chamber size of the AFD heads, but I imagine you'll want to stay south of 10.5 to 1 in a street motor.

You already picked your cam and intake, also. So you've chosen your operating range and to a lesser extent the CR you will need for the cam.

What intake manifold did you get?
 

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Yes the figures are engine dyno no. not in a car/chassis dyno... 20% loss and the .030 Clev would still be around the 320 RWHP mark... That was one of the things they talked about the clev build was a great street motor and they were only turning it to 5500-6000 rpm.... ( they did do a 2v -4v comparo also on the heads, 2v's are better for the street with the rest of the combo of parts they used, and the 2v heads were the open chamber design, with flat top pistons and a 10:1 CR) Its still up to you for the head choice...

BTW the vid if you havent watched is only 17 minutes long or so...
 

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Like they've said already, getting your target HP out of that motor is going to be really easy. Heck, you'd probably have to tune it down to make 325 HP. I'd say with the right combination and staying in the 10.5:1 range you could be making 450-500 HP and staying in that 6,000-6,500 RPM target as well.

If you're planning on running a good forged steel crank and rods (and it's put together right) spinning it past that wouldn't be an issue. Of course if it's a true street car you won't need that very often. I personally like having an over-built bottom end. Mine will never see what it was designed to handle and I'm okay with that. I don't need to worry about that so it's insurance.

With the right combination and proper you really can have power down where you need it and still make big numbers up high.

John
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Nice video

500 lb-feet w/a 6500 rpm redline, that's what I'm talkin' about (I know that was the Windsor, but the Cleveland should be comparable with a stroker kit).

That ought to motivate the old S&H clone along pretty well.

Nice that they gave the major parts list, CR, etc. Prety well matches what I want to put together. That was a little more cam than I thought I could get away with on the street, but the dyno doesn't lie.

If it works out I should have the new motor in by next summer.

Thanks all.
 

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not that the builds were bad , for what the parts used was just an ad.

they should of drop the 4V iron on the 408 with a made for 4v intake.

.. just TV bs imo for ad $$$$$
 

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Flat tops, RPM air gap 351C, looking for 6500 rpms or maybe a nudge more if I were on the drag strip with open headers, 10 1/2 compression. I don't have the heads yet so I'm still open to looking at some other choices on those.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Flat tops, RPM air gap 351C, looking for 6500 rpms or maybe a nudge more if I were on the drag strip with open headers, 10 1/2 compression. I don't have the heads yet so I'm still open to looking at some other choices on those.
Sounds like we are on the same road, are at least very close.

Ar you spending the $s on a roller cam? I've read so much about flat-tappet cam failures it might be an insurance policy. Never had a problem in the past, as long as you follow the break-in procedure, but one theory is the Chinese steel the cams are made from isn't quite up to snuff.

I have a set of good Aussie heads in the shop right now. I haven't decided 100% on if I'll use them or just spring for Edelbrock heads. By the time the Aussies are fully dressed, the Edelbrocks are not that much more.

Flat top pistons and the small-chamber heads will be over 10.5 to 1 in a stroker.

I'll probably have to go with dished pistons. Glad I'm not in a hurry, looks like this project will push $5k - air cleaner to exhaust tips
 
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