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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Some thoughts running through my head. Just want to get some input. The only way a blower can be ran on my 12.5:1 motor is running Methanol. Cheaper than race gas, but usage is more. Corrosive, more oil changes, system must be cleaned out after use, carbs rebuilt, different fuel pump etc. I can get a rebuilt 671 BDS Blower for $800.00. The wheels in my head keep turning. Both my main cruise-ins, I can get back and forth now on a half a tank. Any distance is trailer anyway...so? I really believe going the Nitrous route will break the bank! I'll keep wanting to get greedy for more power and kill my motor. Plus, I'll want every high tech goody out there for NOS! hehe. Just some thoughts....any input appreciated.

"I got the Need...FOR SPEED"
 

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Your thinking of running alky on the street is that what your saying??
I wouldn't even consider it. The fumes alone are a big enough issue....
 

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There is (or at least used to be) a guy on dragraceresults.com that ran alchy on the street. I dont remember much of it, but I vaguely remember him saying it wasnt as bad on mileage as he expected, and he really loved fuming out the drivethru window operators.

As for cleaning the system out after every use, I never did, and I never had any issues with it. The only ~problem~ I ever encountered was a needle and seat would stick about once a year. But once I went to the titanium tipped needle and seats, that also stopped. I would let the car sit for a week or two and never drain the bowls, or drain the cell. I firmly beleive I could go outside right now, bolt the alchy carb back on the car, switch fuels, and it would fire up without leaking a drop.

Depending on how much heat you keep in the motor, and how fat you run it at idle will dictate how often you change your oil. I always tried to keep the water temp up aorund 180*, and got it up to 200* after the last pass of the day before I shut it off. I would put 50 or 60 passes on the oil before I changed it; the same as I do with gas. It must not have hurt much since when I tore it down this past winter (ran about half the year on alchy) the bearings still looked like new.
 

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ive run alky for years, racing. never clean it out during the season. over the winter, yes.

why must you run alky? i know guys running gas in blower motors on the street. not 87 octane, tho.
 

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How about the new "wonder fuel"; E85? It should be available all over Indiana and ethanol plants are no doubt springing up like weeds in your area. Check out the November Car Craft for an article about E85. They list it at about 105 octane. If you know somebody that works at an ethanol plant, maybe you could buy straight ethanol and blend it with 92 octane pump gas for even higher octane at a reasonable price. I understand that before ethanol leaves the plant, a small amount of gasoline is added to make it undrinkable, so the revenooers won't be after you.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Dave,
Blower on 12.5:1 compression engine would have to be Alky.???right?

Alcohol on the streets, but weekend warrior /strip car.
with "RootBeer" scent additive! LOL

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<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: FATNFAST on 9/12/06 6:44am ]</font>
 

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E85 could be a great option, alot more user friendly than straight alky. Saw a writeup somewhere of a turbo build with 1000rwhp running on E85.
 

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wouldnt it be easier to just change your pistons,run the blower,on pump gas?
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Compression , Boost...I guess I want it all! hehe
Will research the E85...

Hey ...if I ran out of fuel, could I send someone to the liquor store and buy some EverClear to get me home? LOL

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<font color="blue">L8R,
Rick in Indy</font>
408 Clevor
Remember...Success is a Journey, Not a Destination



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: FATNFAST on 9/12/06 8:24am ]</font>

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: FATNFAST on 9/12/06 9:25am ]</font>
 

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I ran a '84 Mustang GT on the street...alcohol 830 carb I purchased at an auction. It got old having to buy a LOT of fuel to get back & forth to work every day, and that was the ONLY reason I went back to gas. Fumes weren't bad at all. The only time the fumes get really unbearable is if you have a lot of overlap and the unburned fuel is being blown out the tailpipes. Set the carb up right (lean at cruise/idle and ideal at WOT) and the fumes are no worse than a rich gas carb..especially on a roots blower engine (the blower tends to atomize the fuel better through the rotors). Everything else I have runs on Methanol...lawn mower, 4 wheeler, the old XL350R Honda daily ridden bike, race car (except my mustang bracket car...working on that as we speak). The price has gone up on alky lately though. I "was" getting it for $1.40/gallon. $2.00 is the cheapest I've found it in the last 3 weeks.

In all honesty though, for a weekend car, it would be OK to run it, but if you run out, you're screwed unless it just happens to be in front of a place that supplies/sells methanol. Been there done that! Driving home with gas in the tank tends to foul plugs if the carb is set up for alky. But, it gets you home. Sometimes ya gotta do what ya gotta do.
 

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Have a talk with BG regarding converting the carbs. It won't be cheap...you will be looking at (most likely) changing all the metering blocks, boosters, bleeds and possibly shooters and accelerator pumps etc. I am not up with what the MD's has an delivered.
Companies like Pro Systems will charge you min $400+ per carb to convert and setup to your application.
You will also probably have to upgrade your fuel system as well to keep up with the demand alky needs.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I was told by a racer...he ran high compression with a blower for years. he said he learned the hard way, losing head gaskets and a couple pistons but once he kept 112-118 octane and the timing from 25-32 it was fine. Any thoughts on that? He also said Alky is a pain in the butt.
 

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Im using alky dont really find it a pain to use,
The only thing i do is empty the bowls, regulator and thats it
after every meeting and as for the smell of the meth i added some upper cylinder lube which was scented wth a candy flavour. Was told you pick up a minimum of 5% hp and tq
and also have no over heating problems cheers
 

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Alchy is not a pain in the butt. It really irritates me when guys tell people that dont know any better things like that. Normally the guys that think "alchy is a pain in the butt" never got it tuned right. I found using the "scent" in the fuel just made it smell better when your eyes were watering and your nose burned.


One thing that strikes me, a 650 carb is way too small on a 408. And if you convert it to alchy, it still wont give you the same kick in the pants as if you went from a 950 gas carb to a 950 alchy carb.

As a general rule, alchy does not give much more peak hp, where it shines is how much more torgue it makes. It will pick up hp down low, but that goes hand in hand with the low end torque it produces.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Kid,
Sorry I didn't clarify. I'm currently running two 650 Demons on a Tunnelram.
I talked to BDS, and they said I could run my 12.5:1 compression. BUT! I have to dial my timing back to 26 degrees and run 116 octane gas. 116 octane fuel is PRICEY! It will allow me to run the blower until I purchase Alky carbs. Then instead of running methanol, I'll run 75% 110 octane and 25% Ethanol per tank. Ethanol is not as corrosive as Methanol but will still give me the cooling effect I need. I think I got it figured out. I'm not sacrificing the power I have now to just change pistons put a blower on and have the power I have now. I want what I got and more. I crossed the line a long time ago on streetability. Hey it's only money and you can't take it with you when you go...so have fun....right?
 

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Ah, two 650's, that makes more sense.

But, if you changed pistons and stuck the blower on it, it would make a lot more power than you have now. 9-1 compression coupled with about 10-12 lbs of boost, and you wouldn't even know it was the same motor. That is, till the block broke.


Boost is cool
 

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You could even look at another route ...

why not use water methanol plate injection on it, winsheild washer fuild is cheap ( get the non sudding type that good for -30 or below) look at snowperformance boost cooler or cooling mist.. Im running a sbf with a little blower 174 pullied at 15 psi run 93/94 octane and set the timing retard control back a few degrees on the street than at the track turn on the boost cooler and run timing at max 29 and have the timing retard control take out 2 degrees for every 4 psi.. E85 is a good option as well ( the boost control setup by Matt snow boostcoller and using the right washer fuild will yeild you results in the 120+ octane rating plus it's cools the intake charge temps as well resulting in even more HP and tourqe...
 

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Meth injection is a good way to go. What we found as the best kit on the market is made by these guys
http://alkycontrol.com/
They have the best controller on the market. We had some customers bring us thier car to tune with a Snow kit already installed, but the controller wasn't as good (not as finite of control as with the alky control kit.) Julio is a helluva nice guy, and will custom make a kit for anything, and will answer any questions you may have during installation (I spent a lot of time on the phone with him the first time we we installed one.)

We never liked running a water/meth mix. Straight meth is all we did at the shop, and is all Julio recommends. If you are going to inject something into the intake charge, might as well inject something that offers power as well as a cooling effect.

Granted this example is a chevy, but we had one customer with a 2001 corvette with a blower and an Alkycontrol kit on a stock motor (we stuck long tube headers, and a small cam in it), and with 16 lbs of boost it made 643 rwhp on pump gas with essentially a stock longblock (heads, intake, etc were never removed).

JMHO
 

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Hello, this for kid, are you running the alky injection with blower, n/a carb or with efi? Do you know if he makes a kit for people running n/a carbed with 13 to 1 compression? Thanks
 
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