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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi guys, I ran into this stupid guy at the gas station who informed me he had a 351 and a 289 and all sorts of stuff to sell. So I went over to this house to check the stuff out. I was about to leave after finding out he wanted $2000 for a 351M/400 in a Ford Elite, and $500 for a plain jane 2bbl 302 in a '69 Fairlane, but something told me to go check out the "289" in his '73 Ford truck. (Yeah, right.) I had a feeling it was probably actually a 351W, and when he opened the hood it definately looked like a 351W to me.

He swore up and down that this "289" was the original motor in the truck, but I knew he was full of s**t. The first that caught my eye is it had a 2bbl carb but with an adapter to the factory FOUR BARREL intake. I see no reason to think someone swapped manifolds, it looks more like a complete motor transplant. Some other details: the water pump exits on the driver side, so it's not a 69. The passenger side exhaust manifold is a log exiting straight back, and the driver side's exit is more like a "Y" that exits down at an angle.

According to the info I've found on the net, the 351W wasn't even offered in F-series trucks in this period, so it's definately a transplant.

Here is my question, when was the last year that a 4 bbl 351W was produced? Was it available after 1970? I am trying to figure out if this is a 1970 motor with the high compression heads.

He was asking $500 for the motor but he's stupid and I could probably take it for $300 cash. It does run good, he fired it up for a minute but one of the hoses had broken and was spewing coolant everywhere so I told him to shut it off. When I go back I'll bring a compression tester with me so I can not only verify that it's a good engine, but also see if it's a high compression motor or not.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: shiftless on 9/15/06 12:18pm ]</font>

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: shiftless on 9/15/06 12:20pm ]</font>
 

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Craw under the truck and see if you can read the VIN number stamped on the block. I believe it's on the passenger side. I forget "exactly" where but you should see it. You'll need a rag to wipe off the road grime.
You could also ask to remove a valve cover and if you see adjustable rockers, them you have a '69 or '70 motor, which are arguably the best stock iron heads Ford produced.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Cool, looks like under the valve cover is the best bet. I was going to remove one anyways during my inspection of the engine. I wanted to take a look at the valve tops to see how badly the exhaust seats are sunken, since they are not hardened.

I would rather not crawl up under the truck, because I'm not trying to give this guy any ideas about this engine being anything other than a "289", so as to score the best deal possible.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: shiftless on 9/15/06 12:51pm ]</font>
 

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289 ended in mid 68. you can tell a 351W just look at where the timing cover bolts to the block. If it's even with the head/block surface, it's a 302/289. If there's about 1 1/4" higher from the block, it's a 351W. 351W was only made in 69 and early part of 70. Check the casting number on the manifold for the build info.
 

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Windsor engines were made from 1969 to at least 1978.
Four barrel version was only made in 1969 but some of the 4bbl engines were used in 70. There are a lot of engines out there and they were used in trucks as much as in cars.
In 69/70 the two heads used had a difference of 2cc in combustion chamber volume. one at 60cc D0OZ 6049-C and the C9OZ 6049-F at 59cc. In 1977 the same casting was used for 302 and 351 with the only difference being the size of the holes for the headbolts. These heads use the 1.78" intakes and 1.45" exhaust valves with a chamber volume of 70 CC. Prior to 77 the 351W used the 1.87"intakes and 1.54" exhaust valves. Up to 1978 all Windsor(351) used rail rockers, in 78 they were fitted with stamped steel rockers. The special thing about the 4bbl 351W is that it was the only 351W that was fitted for flat top pistons (C9OZ6108-A). The only forged piston that I know of is by TRW and will only fit the 77 and later heads (larger combustion chambers)it will give 11:1. You would have to shave them to fit the earlier heads.
The flat top cast pistons will yield 10.7 in the early 59cc heads and 10:1 in the later 70cc heads. Perfect for the street running street gas.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: PaulS1950 on 9/15/06 3:46pm ]</font>
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Thanks everyone for the info, I now know all I need to know. If this motor checks out it should be a nice upgrade over my 289 in stock form, then later when I get the funds to convert to propane and turbo it (yes, with the 10.x compression and all, you can get away with a lot with 104 octane) it ought to be a real screamer.
 

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Actually, the 351W was produced well into the 90's, just so you know. It was in Bronco's until 1996...I think they dropped it from production vehicles after that.

The space between the top of the timing cover ad the head(where the head gasket goes) is the easiest way to tell on a running engine, as previously stated.

It is correct that the 4 bbl version was only around in 69 and maybe 70.
The early 351w's had a 9.48 in deck height instead of a 9.5 in one.
They also had a different number of intake bolts, although aftermarket intakes fit both. Either 12bolt or 16bolt, not sure which is the early version.
Other's feel free to chime in an fix whatever I got wrong or missed.

Oh, yea...better jump on that Modified...$2000 is a heck of a deal for that peice. LOL
 

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Here is a easy check. If you do not see a rise bedind the distriutor of about 1 inch, it is not a 351.

 

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Yep, I was going to mention the dizzy hole too. Just look at it, and you can tell. It's pretty much flush on a 302/289
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Guys, I *knew from the second I saw it that it was a 351*. I understand the taller deck height etc. I knew it was a 351. I just needed to know if it had the high compression heads or not. Now I know what to look for. Thanks all.
 

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Don't assume it is a 69-70 351 because it has a 4 barrel carb etc. It could be any year 351. I have a 69-70 4 barrel 351 original motor. I also have a 87 4 barrel 351 original motor in a box van. either I have the rarest or there are plenty of them out there. Do your homework or take a chance.
 

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On 2006-09-15 19:10, Bluemach170 wrote:
Don't assume it is a 69-70 351 because it has a 4 barrel carb etc. It could be any year 351.
He won't because I've already mentioned how he can tell if it's a '69 or '70 engine, or at least has the '69'-70 heads.
Only the '69-'70 351w had adjustable rockers.
 

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Actually no 351W came with adjustable rockers. The early heads had "rail" rockers with push in shouldered studs. This is one way that you can tell if you have the early heads. I believe that D5 heads were the first ped mount rocker 351W heads.

btw...every ford guy should own these books


http://www.cal-mustang.com/showdetl-7-5960-21-0.html


_________________
Tim

81 Mustang Coupe
351W/AOD 12.13 111.7
budget 87 octane street and highway driver

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: qtrhors on 9/16/06 12:09pm ]</font>
 

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On 2006-09-15 21:05, qtrhors wrote:
Actually no 351W came with adjustable rockers. The early heads had "rail" rockers with push in shouldered studs. This is one way that you can tell if you have the early heads. I believe that D5 heads were the first ped mount rocker 351W heads.
Correct, even the early windors were non adjustable.
The D5 heads used in 75-6 still retained the rail rockers and the same combustion chamber, but got smaller valves. spark plugs, and lost the additional intake bolts. Still a good head for upgrading the valve sizes to 1.94s
 

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Good 1969 heads have large spark plugs 13/16 plug socket not the 5/8 socket. check the serial # dont guess it's the only way to know Exactly what type of 351 and what it came out of. IMO
 

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I had an 85 E-150 with a factory 4v 351w. it was a 5.8 HO. They were made beyond 70, just didnt get the good heads
 

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351 without question. With the accessories there it can be harder to tell but if you look at the water outlet on a 302 it is almost tucked behind the top of the water pump, Not so with a 351.
 
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