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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So I am having my 390 bottom end freshened up with a hefty top end, at the machine shop now.

Heres my specs.
390 stock bottom end bored 40 over.
edelbrock RPM 60069 heads
RPM intake
750 edelbrock carb
Hooker long tubes, "anyone ever use these" and if so how was install
PRW roller rocker setup kit
comp ROLLER cam with hydraulic rollers from survival


The car has a C6 that will be getting freshened up a well. My question is I am Torque converter stall Illiterate. Can anyone give me some suggestions for a correct stall for this application.
Its a rough 410 to 430 hp with 420 to 440 torque engine. This is guesstimated and but has been proven on dynos. any help is huge

Thanks for the best site ever guys
 

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Comp Cams is your friend.... Call tech line and ask them, they will know about what stall will be needed.
 

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Looks like some good stuff there! What rear end, are you taking it to the strip?
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Rear end is stock, I am guessing 3.00 or around that, it will run around 2800 to 2900 at 70mph. I am not sure. And No it may never hit the track, Just a cruiser and stop light queen. does the Vin decode the rear on these cars and if so how. I love the top end grunt of the car and don't care to gear it lower
 

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Your rear gear is probably a 3.00 Steveo, mine is. Here's a site that may help you decode your rear... Ford Rear Axle Information
For reference, I'm running about 2750 or so RPM at 70 with a 255/60-15 tire.

Sorry I can't help much on the stall speed, but if you're not hitting the track stock is probably going to be fine. Mine has the original cast iron MX tranny and converter and will burn off an easy 50 ft of rubber without touching the brake. Some stall speed would enhance my rubber burning capability but at least with the open rearend I think I have enough already. Some engine specs and sound here for you to compare. MVI_1348.AVI - YouTube

The hooker 6130 headers work well and have good ground clearance. I like them. I did have to hammer some clearance into one tube around the pitmann arm but otherwise they fit well. Nice clearance around the starter and frame rails, tight around the pitmann arm and column automatic shift linkage. I'd guess you'll have to have the motor in place to be able to see where and how much clearance you'll need, and the car will need to be on a lift to get the driver side header in and out. I messed with mine for a good few hours, loosened up the motor mount and everything but she wasn't going with the car on jackstands. Since I work in a machine shop, I used the forklift to pick the front of the car up a couple feet in the air and then the header slipped right in.

They are much better than the Crites headers IMO, since I had to dent the crap out of those in several places and they still rattled against the frame. I gave them away after my son drove the car and flattened the bottom tubes, which also created a few exhaust leaks, lol.
 

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That cam will have some lope to it so taking into account the tall rear gear you (probably) have, I would consider a 2200 to 2500 stall converter. The stock one is usually around 1800 to 1950. I certainly would not go over 2500 though. Since the c-6 is being redone, are you gonna put a wide ratio gear set in there?...that would give you a lower final drive ratio in first and second gear...helping the tall-ish gears to move the car.
 

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Oh yeah, I like that build. A little less ADV duration and a little more @.050 than mine, good heads, good intake. I've been eyeballing some of those heads myself. Be sure to discuss the valvejob with Barry at Survival. I think having a proper performance valve job done would be the extra dough, especially if you want to break 400HP.

I think it'll run hard and you'll like it, but consider going to a lower rear end gear when you swap in the limited slip rear or locker unit. The one wheel peel is semi-embarrassing, ask me how I know!
 

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Your rear gear is coded under the AXLE section of your door tag (the warranty plate). It's a letter or number and you can use it to decode without crawling under the car or counting driveshaft turns. BTW, numbers are generally open diff's, and letters are usually limited-slip.
:tup:
David
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Thanks for the info guys. I was thinking around a 2300 to 2500 stall myself, as far as the wide gear ratio in the c6 I need more info on it and need to read up on it, As I am buying a core and doing the rebuild myself, Anyone have any good parts kits suggestions
 

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Check with Broader Performance as far as gear sets go...not cheap, however. But, if you take the "shorter rear end gear" advice, you can just rebuild the tranny you have with quality parts. I just didn't like the 3.50s(bought cheap) which I had for a while in my '70 Merc...too many freeway RPM...so I went back to the stock 2.75s. I didn't bother trying 3.00s or 3.25s...though one of them might have been a good compromise. However, I have a very mild cam with gobs of low speed torque so aside from the too-easy-to-spin-the-one-tire syndrome, I like the tall gears w/torquey motor set-up. Your car will be far different from mine.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Yeah I have called broader and been all over their site, I believe I am going to go with their 500 hp kit and the wide gear kit and a few other small parts. I think I am going to but the "bad shoe Productions" c6 rebuild video and try to find a quality rebuild manual.

Can anyone tell me if a little above average shade tree mechanic can rebuild a C6 successfully, I have built a few engines and stuff and am pretty good with patience and small parts.

Also who has the best rebuild book.
 

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If you take your time with a c6 you can do it, but there is a LOT of little pieces that must be put back in place correctly, bands, and clutch discs etc that must be all installed right or your trans will not shift correctly or it will burn up immediatly wasting all the money you just invested...even something as easy as a modulator valve can cause serious issues if not installed correctly, in the end if you have time and patience(a breakdown sheet) then you should be alright, just take lots of pics as you take it appart to refer back to when reinstalling, put little nuts bolts washers, etc all in marked bags so they dont get mixed up! If your doing a complete rebuild a mild shift kit can help reduce transmission wear in the long run....
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
yeah Its deff getting a firm shift kit, I just need to call broaden back and get their opinion and pricing on everything. I think I can do it. Just got to clean the stainless table off and go to town.
 

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Of course you can do it! Attention to detail is the key. I've got several, genuine Ford late 60's shop manuals and they are actually quite good at describing the rebuild process AND providing actual photos, not just drawings like the modern manuals...see if you can come up with one of those old manuals.
 

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Comp Cams is your friend.... Call tech line and ask them, they will know about what stall will be needed.
Should we call the converter company for a camshaft????

If you think you are gaining torque from this build, try the stock converter first. As torque increases, so does stall speed, as weight increases, so does stall speed. Stall speed is all relative to car weight and tq/hp. A converter advertised to stall 25-2700 may stall higher or lower than advertised based on these figures. I hope this makes sense.
 

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Torque will increase with a high perf cam, but not at stock stall speeds. The new cam will have LESS low RPM torque than the stocker so the T/C will lock up at an even lower RPM than stock. The "K" factor of the converter determines stall RPM and a big factor of the K factor is torque at a given RPM. This is the reason high stall converters are used on high performance engines...the low speed torque loss is band-aided by the higher stall speed.
 

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Torque will increase with a high perf cam, but not at stock stall speeds. The new cam will have LESS low RPM torque than the stocker so the T/C will lock up at an even lower RPM than stock. The "K" factor of the converter determines stall RPM and a big factor of the K factor is torque at a given RPM. This is the reason high stall converters are used on high performance engines...the low speed torque loss is band-aided by the higher stall speed.
I would agree that could be true with some builds - especially poorly matched builds, radical street/strip types, or builds that are stock except for the cam change. However a good street performance build should give equal or better torque at low end, and much better at high end, sacrificing nothing and only adding performance. Otherwise you're just shifting the power band to higher rpms. This is part of the art of engine building to attain the goals of the package. In a good street performance build the increased converter K-factor often used is primarily to move the launch rpms to the best average power range - not because power is less at low rev's, but that it's now even better at higher rev's.

To be clear, a typical build will generally use a higher-stall stall converter to take advantage of the better power now available at higher rev's, and that will result in better launch and performance over the stock converter. However, a stock converter could be used to get stock-level acceleration at launch, but much better acceleration as rev's increase. It depends on the goals of the build. Also keep in-mind, a well-designed street converter with a higher K-factor will still pull like a stock one at part-throttle and low rev's, but allow flash stall to higher rev's when the pedal is mashed. Though price does not guarantee quality, this is where saving a few bucks on the converter is often not a good idea, and you really can lose on the bottom-end.

David
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Thanks for all the great info men, My motor is on its way being shipped this week, I toned it down on the cam and went with the comp cams xe262h and a performer intake, comp cams rocker shaft and factory adjustable lifters. 750 edelbrock carb,comp cams 978-16 dual valve springs, edelbrock water pump, and fuel pump. MSD Turn key dizzy, MSD blaster 2 coil, and MSD plug wires, hooker long tubes comp cams double roller timing set. forged pistons, all new clevite bearing with ARP bolts in everything, New balancer, new fly wheel. powertorque starter, and a few other small things. I toned it down a touch on the build to get some better external parts and came to the realization I want to be able to drive her all day anywhere.

Will a stall be needed with the xe 262 cam?? here are the specs.
AND MY MAIN QUESTION IS DO I REALLY NEED TO REMOVE THE INNER VALVE SPRING FOR CAM BREAK IN, even with the break in additives?????


Cam StyleHydraulic flat tappetBasic Operating RPM Range1,300-5,600
Intake Duration at 050 inch Lift218Exhaust
Duration at 050 inch Lift224Duration at 050 inch Lift218 int./224 exh.
Advertised Intake Duration262Advertised Exhaust Duration270Advertised Duration262 int./270 exh.Intake Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio0.513 in.Exhaust Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio0.520 in.Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio0.513 int./0.520 exh.Lobe Separation (degrees)110Grind NumberFB XE262H-10
SpecificationsIntakeExhaustRPM Range:Valve Lash:Valve Timing:Duration:Lobe Separation: Duration @ .050" Lift:Intake Centerline:Valve Lift:Lobe Lift:
 

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... comp cams xe262h ... 978-16 dual valve springs, ... AND MY MAIN QUESTION IS DO I REALLY NEED TO REMOVE THE INNER VALVE SPRING FOR CAM BREAK IN, even with the break in additives?????
First, it appears you have not read the instructions for your cam. You need to read the whole thing, but here is the related section from Comp Cams:
Always remove the inner spring during break-in when using dual valve springs, or if you have a high load single spring, use a lighter spring. An alternative solution that addresses this same concern is using a set of low-ratio break-in rocker arms. Both of these solutions provide your best chance of proper camshaft break-in and long term durability. While these tips may be a slight inconvenience, a little time and effort on the front-end is much better than destroying your new engine.
Additionally, those are stronger than needed for that cam and definitely places the lobes at higher risk than the recommended springs. Why were those springs chosen? Since your builder may have a warranty on the engine, I'd ask him to prep it for you (pull the inners) if it's not getting a dyno break-in and the inners re-installed.

David
 
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