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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Has anyone put the new 5.0 coyote H.O. into a mid 60's Galaxie? I have a 67 2 door fastback with a HiPo 289 and looking to upgrade with the new 5.0!!!
 

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You need to get the June issue of Hot Rod Magazine and turn to page 98. There is an article explaining what the differences are between the cyote and a regular 5.0. They swap one into a Fox body. ;)
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I know the diff between the two platforms that is why I want the better modern platform way more flexibility to build better HP and MPG.
 

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It seems you just like the idea of something a bit different. That's fine. Doing it for MPG is a joke considering the costs involved in a venture like this. Power is also irrelevant, as the pushrod engines have become so advanced that any power level you can dream of can come from either platform. Now, if you just want it because you only see a few Galaxies with mod engines around, that's cool. Do as you like (that's the whole point of hotrodding), but rationalizing with the irrational is just fooling yourself, and everyone else can see right through it. Not trying to be harsh, but I've seen it before when owners are disappointed that folks chuckle at their reasoning. Just do it for the real reasons you're doing it (whatever those are) and be happy with it. It's cool, and respectable. :tup:

What fuel control would you use, and what transmission?

David
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
TO DAVID.....
THIS is why I hate forums like this. JUST like you said not to be harsh.... really. All you like to do is rain on someone else party by posting something stupid like you did.
I want to put the New Coyote engine and tranny to get yes BOTH MPG n HP..... that is the only reason to upgrade to new technology.
Why would I just put a new high tech engine and an old FMX or C-6 tranny... just plain dumb no stupid right David!!!!
I would use the computer out of a modern mustang with either a boss or shelby programming. Again to increase HP and get above average MPG. The old Galaxie with a HiPo 289 anf FMX tranny combo only get about 15 to 18 mpg'sss at best u dumbass.
With the new technology combo I should be able to get close to 30 MPG with the correct new gearing in the rear end. AS you can see I have thought about it and this is the reason I am looking to a true EXPERT that loves FORD's and has some knowledge it make this a great PRO-Touring type of car.
 

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Don't let some folks get to ya. It ain't worth it guy!! It's your car and it should make YOU happy not other folks!! I would like to see this too (newer motor install), especially installing electronic box and change-over to fuel injection and even a turbo. Even for my Six Cyl. I'd love to have a fuel injected six out of a truck with the stock cast alum headers and a strong cam. I feel this would give me more "seat of the pants" torque off the light--What I like about big blocks but a six cyl economy. Keep us posted please, also lots of pics. (Best for me!!)
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Don't let some folks get to ya. It ain't worth it guy!! It's your car and it should make YOU happy not other folks!! I would like to see this too (newer motor install), especially installing electronic box and change-over to fuel injection and even a turbo. Even for my Six Cyl. I'd love to have a fuel injected six out of a truck with the stock cast alum headers and a strong cam. I feel this would give me more "seat of the pants" torque off the light--What I like about big blocks but a six cyl economy. Keep us posted please, also lots of pics. (Best for me!!)
Thanks Bro. You are right but sometimes we have to stand up and put people into their right and deserving places. I will keep all up to date once I review and get some great knowledge for most of the cool guys here.
 

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Maybe you should reread what David wrote....

He was not trying to put you down...
Simply just making a point of say and hoping that you where
Not doing this for mpg alone..
Since its quite a costly swap and the money you save per gallon....
Would take a whole lot a driving to offset cost....

Kudos to you for doing it..... :tup:
Lol If I ever hit that lotto jackpot

Then I would love to do the same swap....

Hope to see a lot of picture and progress reports when you get started on this project.....:)
 

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My dream is still my old 429 in my old 69 mustang, sporting complete 2005+ engine controls... Imagine what a old school bigblock could do with todays controls...

Looked up a 2011 torque plot, about 260 ft-lb at 2600, looked up a mild 460, 440 ft-lb at 2600... Bet with crank triggered/ knock sensored/ efi/ drive by wire throttle( sucks but works hand in hand with timing/ping controlling), bet 500 ft-lb wouldnt be out of the question...double the seat of the pants torque... Yes the coyote can scream to 7500 rpm and put out 600 hp with some mods, but to me, id still rather have the diesel like torque that can pull to 6k if needed- even if hp peak is only 2/3 of what a coyote might do, still think the 99.9 percent of the time driving, the bigblock would be more enjoyable.

A six speed tranny would be great, but bigblock torque would limit choices to some highly built up units... But secondary overdrive, like gearvendors, could offer some highway mpg options too...

Kudos to anyone updating anything this old with the latest and greatest stuff though- high torque or high hp, to each his own- but certainly the car can be immensely improved either way- i still wish OEMs would get off the hp kick and build some torque monsters... Think the more powerful feeling off idle power would sell better if a person were to test drive a fast 5000 rpm peak torque vs a slower, but 3000 rpm peak torque car... Racing is all about hp, but stoplight to stoplight on the way to work, torque is all you can ever legally enjoy...
 

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Actually ford4v429 i have a 6 speed in my 68 that was up against a 500hp / 450tq 460 that held just fine..the new t56 magnum is rated to 700 tq out of the box and trust me it shifts great! I got mine from american powertrain, you have to be patient they may take some time but they do complete kits and stand behind their work and are a great company...grey frederick really knows his stuff....with that motor in 6th gear i was getting around 20mpg...believe it or not. Overall their was some floor modifcation needed and trans support rails. I have a huge thread on it. Overall any backyard mechanic can do the swap.
 

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TO DAVID.....
THIS is why I hate forums like this. JUST like you said not to be harsh.... really. All you like to do is rain on someone else party by posting something stupid like you did.
I want to put the New Coyote engine and tranny to get yes BOTH MPG n HP..... that is the only reason to upgrade to new technology.
Why would I just put a new high tech engine and an old FMX or C-6 tranny... just plain dumb no stupid right David!!!!
I would use the computer out of a modern mustang with either a boss or shelby programming. Again to increase HP and get above average MPG. The old Galaxie with a HiPo 289 anf FMX tranny combo only get about 15 to 18 mpg'sss at best u dumbass.
With the new technology combo I should be able to get close to 30 MPG with the correct new gearing in the rear end. AS you can see I have thought about it and this is the reason I am looking to a true EXPERT that loves FORD's and has some knowledge it make this a great PRO-Touring type of car.
I'm sorry you feel that way, as you mis-read the intent of my post. I praised you for your move to modern, and for doing the swap because it's different, or you just like it. I am not raining on your parade at all. But beyond those reasons, and knowing what I'm talking about; equal or better torque, HP and MPG can be had from various and often less expensive pushrod combinations. That's a fact.

That you want a mod motor is fine. To rationalize it for better economy and power is simply not reasonable. To wit - if you place modern electronic engine and transmission controls, modern tech heads, cam, etc, onto a OHV engine, along with a modern transmission into your Galaxie, you can see every bit as much TQ, HP and MPG as the mod motor. The magic is not so much in the name, block design, or the overhead cams - it's in the tech of the parts and control of the engine. We can discuss it to find a less expensive yet better combo, or the best mod combo for your application in the Galaxie if you like.

I would like to say again - I am not being harsh nor raining on your parade to state facts, and in-fact am trying to save you a bit of disappointment or even embarrassment if you think your goals are only achievable, or only achieved best, with a 5.0L Coyote engine. I would say the same stuff to anyone thinking the same way about a GM LS engine variant, or 6.0/7.3 Turbo diesel, or 800hp Toyota Supra engine, etc. - all engines that have been used in Galaxies before.

David
 

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PSIG, I would suggest that he may have been told his idea wasn't ideal by others for possibly the same reasons as yours (or maybe just the fact others are ignorant and dont like them-we all know the type). He jumped out of the blocks pretty quick.

1967 Ford XR Falcon 'ZERO'D' with 7.3 Powerstroke turbo-diesel V8 - PerformanceDrive

This is a classic example-big deisel in a mid 60's aussie ford, much like you suggested earlier, but you do it to say you've done it, not to save money for school lunches or an extra 6-pack on the weekend.

If you don't mind spending a lot of coin with a certain outcome in mind i.e. as the OP stated 30mpg, all good. Different from me and a lot others, where the extra cost of even a gear vendors o/d would take a helluva long time to justify it's existence on MPG alone as I just dont drive it enough.
If I had 20k for upgrades, there would be alot of stuff I'd do first (not just to the engine).
In saying that they have started fitting supercharged coyote motors to the Aussie FPV 4dr falcons, and from what I read of them I had a thought of what one would go like in my 72 gal. always good to have ideas, keeps the juices flowin'.
 

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Actually ford4v429 i have a 6 speed in my 68 that was up against a 500hp / 450tq 460 that held just fine..the new t56 magnum is rated to 700 tq out of the box and trust me it shifts great! I got mine from american powertrain, you have to be patient they may take some time but they do complete kits and stand behind their work and are a great company...grey frederick really knows his stuff....with that motor in 6th gear i was getting around 20mpg...believe it or not. Overall their was some floor modifcation needed and trans support rails. I have a huge thread on it. Overall any backyard mechanic can do the swap.
hmm :) thx for the info- when the time comes, I'll definitely check them out... had been kinda tossing around in my mind a AOD with gearvendors unit, but my 06 is a stick, and soooooooo much more fun to drive than the wifes 07 automatic... I'll check out American Powertrain- thanks!
tim
 

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As I can see i'm not the only one to want information about this swap. Very interesting ,please let us know.
BTW my 65 presently have a 289 hi po too, it's funny because we are probably the only ones to have 289 hi po in our galaxies !!!!
 

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i understand what PSIG is saying. That is a TON of money to be spending on top of what you would on an old tech engine to make the same power, just to try to save gas. Seriously, thousands more upfront. It would take a lot of driving for the mileage to finally be the reason to make it worth it.

I love the coyote motors though. 430RWHP with boltons. Thats impressive and they have good torque to boot. They have tech that you CANNOT apply to the old tech engines which help it produce such a nice broad powerband. Its the variable valve timing. gives it the TQ and the high RPM.

The coyote engine wont be superior in power as compared to whats possible today using old (bigger displacement) engines but it would definately kick the ass of any old engine as far as driveability is concerned. I bet youd be able to beat the **** out of it for hundreds of thousands of miles and not worry much. If youre planning on driving the car maybe 15k a year then i can see how a coyote engine would be worth it!!!
 

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i understand what PSIG is saying. That is a TON of money to be spending on top of what you would on an old tech engine to make the same power, just to try to save gas. Seriously, thousands more upfront. It would take a lot of driving for the mileage to finally be the reason to make it worth it. ...
Actually, that was not my main point, but rather that he could do even better. The whole contention was that he wanted to use the mod motor because it is a "better modern platform way more flexibility to build better HP and MPG". If he were doing it because it was "cool" or "different" that would be just fine - but that's not what he said.

I will give an example to illustrate. We had a slow rainy-day and we were wondering - what V8 would give the best combination of mileage and power, limited to available or easily orderable parts and minimal modifications, in a 3000-3500 pound car with typical '60s aerodynamics? The other requirement was that it use 92 octane pump gas - the primary limiting factor. Basically, the best combo of power and efficiency in a daily-driver street car.

We began brainstorming, and the kid that can enter data faster than you can read it started comparisons. The results were very surprising, and the best combinations were not Ford. However, the closest combination of Ford-only stuff (that we tried) was compared against the supercharged 4.6L 4V as one of the better contenders. The combo was:

  • Dart 8.2" 302 race block or equivalent
  • 2.5" stroke crank
  • 5.7" SBC rods (2.28 R/S ratio)
  • OTS 1.25" CH pistons with low-tension rings
  • CHI 3v Cleveland heads with flow separators, honeycomb inserts and filling for flow (not much "traditional" porting)
  • Roller cam timed for high lift and cruise RPM efficiency with controlled light boost and EGR circulation
  • MS3X fuel/EGR/boost/WI management and E-transmission control with OD and lockup
  • Staged SEFI fuel injection at cruise with 16 injectors - 160cc primary, 610cc secondary
  • EGR control for cruise and high boost
  • Water injection
  • Twin GT35R turbochargers (efficient aftercooling and all that)
The combo gives 251 CI (4.1L) that cruises at 1800 RPM with heavy EGR circulation and slightly rich to make more carbon monoxide and less carbon dioxide for efficient power and an extremely low BSFC for mileage. Wide-open? 918 HP/619 TQ at 26 PSIG with heavy EGR and WI.

That's 26% better power and 11% better fuel consumption than the 4.6L 4V at it's limit of boost on pump gas. That is huge. The 5.0L mod based on Coyote tuning parameters I've seen, that would shift to 13-14% better mileage and about 21% better power. All of this would be about $5000-6000 less expensive (using your own labor) than the Coyote. Win - win - win. So, I hope you can see that my response was not about what's cool, or different; but about the Coyote being the best one for tuning and power. That's all. To be fair, if we enhanced the Coyote with the same tech used on this "Mini-BOSS" the margins would shrink considerably, though at much higher total cost. Likewise, if we added valve timing or lofting tech to the mini, the margins would expand again. In-fact, if we were willing to give up a couple MPG in the cam to favor power, it would shoot to something over 1000 HP. Ridiculous power you could never actually use on the street. It's a battle of technology, not platform.

BTW - does anyone know why the Ford modular engine was developed instead of improving the older designs? GM saw fit to steal most of the architecture of the Windsor series and add new tech to make the impressive LS series. Look at it - it's a Ford engine with a bow tie. I'll simply say the modular was not primarily developed as a better platform for outright power and mileage.

David
 

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Funny you should ask specifically about a 67.
I have a new coyote 5.0 in my 67 Galaxie 4-door. I got the motor used including controls pack for a significant savings over new. I did all the calculations before starting the project, and knew beforehand that it was a much better idea financially to rebuild the original 390 motor. It would also have taken much less time. But I did it anyway. We are not logical creatures.

To quell any misconceptions: It is a hell of a job, financially and in terms of time. The motor fits with minimal mods to the original car, and I was able to use the stock tubular headers, cats, and midpipe. I could put the car back to stock immediately.

I have not driven it, but I have started it. I am waiting on a new steering column for my first drive. I am running a 4R70W transmission controlled by a standalone computer. I am completely mocking up the car and driving it before I do any cosmetic restoration. But it will definitely get a cosmetic restoration when it cools down again.

I would be happy to answer any questions.

BTW. On previous big car and bike projects, I kept a running thread going with pictures and details, but when I put up my first picture of this project, all people commented on is the dirty engine bay. It turned me off completely, so I have just been quietly working instead of posting.



 

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Awesome. I am also a mechanicals before cosmetics guy. If you don't want to see a dirty bay, don't look at one of mine during the process. ;) When I'm done banging around and setting stuff on fire with the welder - then I make it pretty. Maybe. Which controller are you using for the 4R70W?

David
 

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Very nice job. Once the engine bay is all cleaned up, I can imagine a couple of turbos. :)
 

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Wow again Xavier 296 I see that you used your original radiator, does the inlet and outlet are in the same place than the 5.0?
let us know and if you have more pics , I appreciated.

thank's again
 
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