[SCOTT]

Just thought I'd pass this along, I'm sure many of you have probly seen this, I hope its not a repost.

I'd like to hear more about what kind of power you can get from this process. Using water to generate power.

Anybody know more about it please speak up.

http://www.ironsind.com/water_as_fuel.wmv

 

[Brian M]

You wont gain anything, all the 'power' comes from combining the hydrogen and oxygen. How do you get this hydrogen and oxygen? Electricity is spent to separate them from water. You cant get more power out than you put in to split em up.

 

[gchero351]

Yes brian, but lets not forget to re-structure our atoms and de-molecularize the molecules so we dont open up a big can of worms.....

 

[ckelly]

Not sure I want to put HoHo water in my tank...

 

[FEandGoingBroke]

Well his car ran off it so the power to convert it is coming from somewhere....

 

[FEandGoingBroke]

I just had a funny thought....

{wife} "Hunny?......" "I think their's Gas in my water....!"

{hubby} "Why do you say that dear?"

{wife} "Because the car is gaining power...."

FE

 

[thekingofazle]

Yeah, basically they use fossil fuel to get the energy to split the water in the first place - you regain some of that when you recombine them, but not as much as it took to split it in the first place... hydrogen power is pretty much useless without a better source of energy to generate it with.

 

[Mr.Ed]

Many years ago I used to get a magazine called Mother Earth News and they had a hydrogen converter for sale that ran on a PV cell. Those things that big oil hates!

Later!
Mr. Ed

 

[n2omike]

They showed the guy pouring water into the machine. They then showed water being formed when it burned. They ended up with the same thing they started with.

Since nothing is more than 100% efficient, any process that both starts and finishes with the same product has to be getting major energy from someplace else.

This is NOT a perpetual motion machine. Since there is no net change in substance..... water being changed to hydrogen and oxygen, then back to water... there is no net chemical energy released. What you are seeing is the electrical energy being converter to heat. That's all, nothing else.

He originally did it as an alternative to acetylene. It worked as that, but it's no magic fuel. His car was a hybrid. I'd say he just tied into a 12V line (lighter circuit, maybe) as a source of electricity, which was used to electrolytically decompose a small amount of water into hydrogen.... which was injested (in small, insignificant amounts) into the engine through the airbox. He said he only used 4 ounces of water in a 100 mile trip. Water is only 11% hydrogen, so 4 measly liquid ounces of water doesn't produce squat for hydrogen. It doesn't make enough to START the car, let alone drive it.

He probably just stuck the hose in the airbox and called his car a hybrid.

Might be fine for welding with a small flame, but nothing you are going to power an automobile with.

_________________
66 mustang
302 4-speed 289 heads, 10.63 @ 129.3
http://www.mustangworks.com/cgi-bin/moi-display.cgi?220

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: n2omike on 5/13/06 4:42am ]</font>

 

[thekingofazle]

Even if you had 100% efficiency - that would only be enough that you would be able to split the water and recombine it with no energy loss - which means if you actually did WORK with it, you'd have to have over 100% efficiency.

Like what mike said, the only way to make hydrogen from water is to electrolyze it - and where does that electricity come from? Fossil fuels.

 

[bytemydust]

Static electricity from his hair?......lightning? Flux capacitor?


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: bytemydust on 5/13/06 4:38am ]</font>

 

[n2omike]

128 liquid ounces of water (one gallon) weighs eight pounds. He only decomposed 4 liquid ounces of water, and water is only 11% hydrogen! He only made 0.00044 pounds of hydrogen! That's not hardly enough to blow your nose. (well, it is enough to hurt your nose really bad, but you get the point)

_________________
66 mustang
302 4-speed 289 heads, 10.63 @ 129.3
http://www.mustangworks.com/cgi-bin/moi-display.cgi?220

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: n2omike on 5/13/06 4:40am ]</font>

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: n2omike on 5/13/06 4:43am ]</font>

 

[Motorhead]

The part that intrigues me is that he doesn't say he's using "Hydrogen gas", he's producing "HHO" (a different molecule than H2O) and then getting the energy from that. I agree that his "Hybrid" probably uses gasoline to charge up some batteries, which then can be used to produce HHO and run for a while 'till the batteries are dead. But I'm confused how he managed to make a car run WELL on the stuff... I mean it's going to have TOTALLY different properties than gasoline, it might not like 9:1 CR, and how about controlling the air/fuel ratio? I dunno, it looks like another mis-informed newscaster that doesn't know a thing about chemistry, just reporting what this guy told them.

 

[n2omike]

The car runs on gasoline. He's directing an insignificant amount of hydrogen into the airbox. An amount so insignificant, it has zero effect on the engine. 0.00044 pounds of hydrogen over a 100 mile trip is absolutely nothing.

HHO is just his way of showing the decomposition of water, H2O. To you and me, H2O ---> H2 + O2 He's just putting a spin on it.

He's just using electrolysis, so he isn't making anything other than hydrogen and oxygen.

 

[rancheroo]

Good to hear from you Mike. We need more science teachers on board.

Rick

 

[SCOTT]

Thanks mike, I wasnt sure how much hydrogen you got from 4 oz, lol. I wonder why the government is giving him a $$$$$$contract to "play" around with some hummers. ???? I guess anybody can pull the wool over you eyes for alittle while.

 

[thekingofazle]

It's too bad all this research is going into hydrogen technology, too, because it isn't going to do us a whit of good - even if we perfect it, the technology will have to sit on a shelf while we develop something else to actually electrolyze the water.

Hydrogen is promising as a replacement for fossil fuels, in that it fulfills the "storage" requirements of current gas - it can be transported and contained in small independent containers - we just have to find a way to make the hydrogen efficiently.

I say we get a bunch of thermocouples, slap them in some volcanic vents in the ocean, and let them go to work making us some hydrogen.

Let it distill the water with heat, add in an electrolyte, convert the heat into electricity, and use the electricity to generate hydrogen. We go back every so often and hook up a new hydrogen tank.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: thekingofazle on 5/15/06 5:37am ]</font>

 

[Mr.Ed]

No one seems to be paying attention, which doesn't surprise me since the majority put him back in office for another shot at totally bankrupting the country. So here it goes again.

SOLAR POWER!!

You see the thing that separates the hydrogen from water does it with electricity so you use SOLAR COLLECTORS to power the thing. It ain't free by any means but you aren't paying for oil, coal or natural gas to make electricity. And for those of you that aren't aware yet, solar is renewable!

Later!
Mr. Ed

 

[FEandGoingBroke]

Ed, Solar power isn't renewable, Gosh! We only have about a Half of a Billion Years left before the sun Blinks out Permanently...

FE

 

[thekingofazle]

The only problem with solar power is that you'd have to cover most of the midwest to generate enough energy to meet current needs.

It's hard to grow food under an opaque panel.