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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I need some tips on over head welding.
While I am doing this mini tub/spring relocation thing, I am also completeing the stitch welding of the seams in the back of the car.

I am finding it really frustrating getting the wire feed, heat right. I cant find the sweet spot, I am either dumping hot sparts and metal on me, or the beads are not penetrating,

Jack the heat up, a notch, I get burn through and thus the hot sparks, slow the wire down, it just turns the wire to to a glowing rod.

I am trying to stay away from a constant bead or run, just tacking n moving. But the results are not my favorite. On the heavier metals like the Torque Box etc, no problems, just cranking up the heat and the feed and making nice welds.
 

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Its not terribly different, gun angle and the type of gas you are using help a lot. The material you are stitching could help with a bit of over wire, where you speed up your wire a bit and just a tad more heat. It will chatter when it starts and give you more spatter, but should help after you get the heat moving.
 

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I don't know your welding concepts, but let me throw this at you. One of the counter-intuitive aspects of wire welding that takes getting used-to, is that the AMPS knob is only a level of available power. Wire feed actually establishes the heat in the puddle, so a faster feed (deeper in the puddle) allows more of that available amperage to flow, increasing penetration. Obviously there are limits based on the power you selected, and that helps to prevent overheating, blowing holes, etc. Have you thought about it that way? If not, ponder the effects of what each adjustment would do under that concept, and play on some scrap a bit to see if it follows your thinking. Then you can play with it to get the results you are after. HTH

David
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I don't know your welding concepts, but let me throw this at you. One of the counter-intuitive aspects of wire welding that takes getting used-to, is that the AMPS knob is only a level of available power. Wire feed actually establishes the heat in the puddle, so a faster feed (deeper in the puddle) allows more of that available amperage to flow, increasing penetration. Obviously there are limits based on the power you selected, and that helps to prevent overheating, blowing holes, etc. Have you thought about it that way? If not, ponder the effects of what each adjustment would do under that concept, and play on some scrap a bit to see if it follows your thinking. Then you can play with it to get the results you are after. HTH

David
Man, that is some Zen stuff there, but I get it. Fine ballance between pushing the wire deep into the puddle, and pushing it inside the car.

I sometimes move up the wire until I feel it bounding the gun off the work, if not getting the penetration and flow, I notch up the heat. So when I step up the heat or amps, based on the prev level of feed, should i step the feed back down or just continue from there.

Thanks David, Chris.
 

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What kind of welder are you using and are you running an extension cord? My old welder was a 110V and when using an extension cord the could never get it set right. I would weld 2-3 minutes perfect and then all of the sudden it was like I turned both dial 2 clicks the oppisite direction. Switched to a 220v machine with heavy gage extention cord. Never had another issue even at the lowest settings.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Its a 110 Lincoln 140, and yes I can tell the diff on various extension chords or none.
What kind of welder are you using and are you running an extension cord? My old welder was a 110V and when using an extension cord the could never get it set right. I would weld 2-3 minutes perfect and then all of the sudden it was like I turned both dial 2 clicks the oppisite direction. Switched to a 220v machine with heavy gage extention cord. Never had another issue even at the lowest settings.
 

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Try a different wire, I went from .030 to .035 and it helped me, also try replacing the tip in the gun, when mine gets bad it wont weld very good-change the tip and I am back to normal...like said above angle of the gun will make a difference.....and make sure the metal is clean!!!!!
 

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Over head welding just sucks anyway, your going to get burnt...be careful, we transported a guy to the burn center the other day because his shirt caught fire and he didnt notice it right away and it burned his whole back
 

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Will your welder run .023 or .025? I have a 220 unit, but for anything under 16ga, I need to run smaller wire to get better control on thin sheet metal
 

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Will your welder run .023 or .025? I have a 220 unit, but for anything under 16ga, I need to run smaller wire to get better control on thin sheet metal
I too have better control when using the smaller gauges on sheet metal.

Also be sure that the 2 seams butt tightly together and that there is no seam sealer or other foreign bodies between or around them.
 

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I too have better control when using the smaller gauges on sheet metal.

Also be sure that the 2 seams butt tightly together and that there is no seam sealer or other foreign bodies between or around them.
Yea I also get better results with the smaller gauge wire on sheet metal, .023. I will do some practice welds on similar metal on the bench first to setup welder before welding overhead.

I also make sure my tip sticks out of the nozzle a little bit. Use nozzle dip or a splatter spray. Also when welding overhead keep checking for splatter falling in the nozzle.

Clean metal!! Is a must. For where your welding and your ground. Hitting rust or contaminants and weld hits the floor or you if your under it.

Trim the wire every time you start a weld. I go for around 3/8ths stickout on wire. I run gas and bump it up a little that seems to help some.

I go with less of a angle on the gun when welding overhead, more on a straight on.

Protective gear, long sleeve welding shirt and gloves. And ear plugs!!

HF sell cheap welding blankets that work well. If you lay one down it stops the splatter from bouncing around if it hits the floor.

Be careful. And take your time.

Lou
 

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Man, that is some Zen stuff there, but I get it. Fine ballance between pushing the wire deep into the puddle, and pushing it inside the car.
Sorry - missed your question. Keep in-mind, you have a range from burying the wire in the puddle, to spray-transfer at slower wire feeds. Where you are melting the end of the wire has a lot to do with how much amperage is actually flowing, and how concentrated it is.
I sometimes move up the wire until I feel it bounding the gun off the work, if not getting the penetration and flow, I notch up the heat. So when I step up the heat or amps, based on the prev level of feed, should i step the feed back down or just continue from there.

Thanks David, Chris.
Right. So, if you increase wire feed until the wire is pushing the gun up (but not enough penetration), increase your heat range with amps. Then regulate your total heat and penetration with wire feed. This all assumes you are traveling at the right rate to get the deposit you want.

So, let's say you are doing sheet metal, you have the wire feed high and the wire deep in the puddle (lots of amp flow) and you are close, but occasionally blowing holes. At that point, you can slow the wire slightly to let the wire pull out of the puddle. Less heat in the bead. Still too hot? Less wire feed (and slowing travel) will make the wire melt above the puddle, giving spray transfer, a wider deposit, and less penetration. Think of it like mini-plasma spray.

The basis is that amps give you a range, with low amps range for sheet, and high for railroad tracks. At any particular amp setting, penetration and bead heat can be regulated with wire feed and resulting increase or decrease in actual amp flow. Set your amps and tune with wire feed. Not working? Change amps and re-tune with feed.

Finally, you can back the seam with a heat sink like copper sheet to reduce blow-through. Of course, that works if you can get to both sides. ;) HTH
David
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
The basis is that amps give you a range, with low amps range for sheet, and high for railroad tracks. At any particular amp setting, penetration and bead heat can be regulated with wire feed and resulting increase or decrease in actual amp flow. Set your amps and tune with wire feed. Not working? Change amps and re-tune with feed.
This makes perfect sense, you asked and answered my question. Much like tuning, which one you set first, which one you adjust, the step up and do it again.

On another note, I did catch the car on fire (again, last time I left the speaker installed while I was putting in the cowl- FE called me a Tard of some sort - car tard I think;).

I forgot I had left the shocks in the trunk, between the seat bulkhead/firewall and diff tunnel. The red rubber accordian cooked off. Lots of smoke, a good bit of flame. One shot with the extinguisher took it out. I wish i had read the safety reminders before last night. No worries, the rubber fell away from the shock and the soot wiped off the shock, no damage. The bulkhead performed as advertised.

Got both perches fabbed and fitted, if I get time before I leave Sun, plan on mounting, mocking up the housing on the rear shackles and springs, and locating the perches, or checking to see they land where I think they should.

Id send pics, but I locked my phone in the lock box at work and lost the key at the Gas Supply store. Its been a wierd week.

Gone the whole week of the 13- 17th, Armed Forces Skeet shoot at Lejune. So not much progress ahead.
 

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You should use wire smaller than you working material. And if your not using gas then you polarity might not be set right. Check it on a test piece... A lot of times people but small cracker box welder and don't realize that the machines polarity is set up for gas. If you swap the the polarity they usually run better.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Figured it out, biggest problem was my wire feed tensioner was not tight enuff.

I kept cranking up the wire feed, and it would still sputter, etc. Come to find out it was loose and feeding erratically.

I recall readinging i the instructions to not tighten the feed tensioner too tight, so I probably didnt get it tight and it backed off.

Welded up the front spring perches last night and hit some seams, AWESOME. Amazing what consistant wife feed will do. I guess as long as I was horizontal or downward welding it was ok, but overhead was too much for it.
 

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I caught the crotch of my jeans on fire welding like that. I couldn't put the fire out. I had to throw off my jeans on the concrete.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Ive caught so much crap on fire, including me. I would definately piss on it if my crotch were ablaze. Now that I am about done, I am thinking the 70 bucks for the Harbor Freight welding jacket would have been worth it. My back and arms look like I got into a fire fight with buckshot.
I caught the crotch of my jeans on fire welding like that. I couldn't put the fire out. I had to throw off my jeans on the concrete.
 
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