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I'm finally, after years off and on, ready to paint my 69 mustang coupe. Most of it is at bare metal. Almost all of the chrome is off. Some of the trim is off and will be painted at the same time. Hopefully will start spraying sunday.

I have some questions.

It will be inside my garage, temp around 50-55 outside, I have a heater for inside. After I paint should I close the vent windows and door and turn the heater on to dry or leave them open to vent the fumes out and let it dry slower\colder.

I have a sprayer with a 1.7 nozzle. Is that too big??

Air pressure adjusted to 50, is that ok??

I'm using Dupont Nason brand urethane single stage paint.

The Dupont primer is 2 stages, the first will be sanded, the second is not sanded. The second dries for 1 hour and then paint is applied. What grit should that sandpaper be for the first primer??

The final paint polish I'll use some 1500 sandpaper. Is it ok dry or does it need to be wet sanded?

Thanks and wish me luck.
 

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Ok so I'm confused by the Dupont primer\paint. The place I bought it from is closed all weekend and the guy I bought it from was not very patient.

I think it goes like this...

491-55 etch primer. I spray this over all bare metal.

In about one hour spray 421-19 urethane primer over entire vehicle in 2-3 coats. Let dry, sand as needed to smooth and remove minor scratches\pits.

Wash, dry and re-mask

Spray 422-50 urethane sealer over entire vehicle. Let dry 1 hour.

After 1 hour, apply 3 coats final color. Let dry at least 1 day. Sand with 1500 paper.

Is this right???
 

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Ok so I'm confused by the Dupont primer\paint. The place I bought it from is closed all weekend and the guy I bought it from was not very patient.

I think it goes like this...

491-55 etch primer. I spray this over all bare metal.

In about one hour spray 421-19 urethane primer over entire vehicle in 2-3 coats. Let dry, sand as needed to smooth and remove minor scratches\pits.

Wash, dry and re-mask

Spray 422-50 urethane sealer over entire vehicle. Let dry 1 hour.

After 1 hour, apply 3 coats final color. Let dry at least 1 day. Sand with 1500 paper.

Is this right???

Yes, and all sanding should be done wet.... I like to sand out to 400 on the last primer sand.

M2C,


MRO.....
 

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I'm finally, after years off and on, ready to paint my 69 mustang coupe. Most of it is at bare metal. Almost all of the chrome is off. Some of the trim is off and will be painted at the same time. Hopefully will start spraying sunday.

I have some questions.

It will be inside my garage, temp around 50-55 outside, I have a heater for inside. After I paint should I close the vent windows and door and turn the heater on to dry or leave them open to vent the fumes out and let it dry slower\colder.

I have a sprayer with a 1.7 nozzle. Is that too big??

Air pressure adjusted to 50, is that ok??

I'm using Dupont Nason brand urethane single stage paint.

The Dupont primer is 2 stages, the first will be sanded, the second is not sanded. The second dries for 1 hour and then paint is applied. What grit should that sandpaper be for the first primer??

The final paint polish I'll use some 1500 sandpaper. Is it ok dry or does it need to be wet sanded?

Thanks and wish me luck.
I haven't used etch primer in like forever but seem to remember you can,t used it over plastic/putty.

You want to keep your garage up to temp, Close to 70degrees. Your also going to need exhaust fan to get rid of fumes. Not sure how you heat garage but you don't want any open flame..... That could be bad.
You don't want temp to fall too fast while paint is drying try to keep it the same temp if you can. If it falls some because of exhaust fan you will be ok but you don't want it dropping from 70 to 50, dropping 7/8 degrees would be all I would want.
1.7 tip is a little big but should be ok. 50 psi seems high to me but may work with your gun.

Sand primer with 400 or finer (500,600) and preferably wet though have seen people do it dry.

The sealer you don,t sand. If you are going to have whole car in primer I wouldn't,t use sealer but that is me. Others use sealer.

When you color sand it do it wet. I start with 1000/1200 and go to 1500/2000,

Your paint supplier should have given you the tech sheets on your stuff. Sounds like he didn't. Here they are for your primers.

http://www.pc.dupont.com/dpc/en/US/html/visitor/common/pdfs/b/product/nsn/Nason/491-55.pdf

http://pc.dupont.com/dpc/en/US/html/visitor/common/pdfs/b/product/nsn/Nason/421-17_421-19.pdf

Hope everything goes well and wish ya luck.

Take your time, making sure garage is clean and keeping floor wet will keep the dust down and out of your paint.

Hope it helps
Lou
 

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I'll try to give a little along the way here also.

I haven't used etch primer in like forever but seem to remember you can,t used it over plastic/putty.
{yep, etch primer is for metal only and it's very very thin}
You want to keep your garage up to temp, Close to 70degrees. Your also going to need exhaust fan to get rid of fumes. Not sure how you heat garage but you don't want any open flame..... That could be bad.{not really... I paint and clear and prime and clean my guns with a 210,000 BTU Forced air Diesel heater shooting out about 1 10" flame burning at 40 gillion degrees, and I haven;t blown up yet.... :)}
You don't want temp to fall too fast while paint is drying try to keep it the same temp if you can. If it falls some because of exhaust fan you will be ok but you don't want it dropping from 70 to 50, dropping 7/8 degrees would be all I would want. {Yes, Very closely pay attention to the temps, if it dips below 50*F your clear will Blush and that will piss you off...}
1.7 tip is a little big but should be ok. 50 psi seems high to me but may work with your gun.
{experiment with the pressure and spray pattern on your gun to shoot a wide even line, not thick in the middle not thick on the outside, even pattern then you can make your passes and evenly cover your rig. That 1.7 is a little large, you're going to go through material rather quick, I use a 1.8 for heavy primers, and a 1.4 for sealer and paint and clear. But that's just me. You may find that the 1.7 is perfect all around for you.}
Sand primer with 400 or finer (500,600) and preferably wet though have seen people do it dry.
{sanding with fine grit paper in dry mode causes the paper to clog up very rapidly, this causes little polish parks in the primer and does not cut evenly, I highly suggest you use wet dry wherever possible at 600 grit or higher before your sealer coat, and if you have to sand your sealer (I don't recommend it if it's on nice and flat) use no heavier than 1500 grit, or your base coat will show some of the scratch marks. If you must smooth over your sealer, do it with 4,000 wet or dry and do it wet, then lay on your base coat....}
The sealer you don,t sand. If you are going to have whole car in primer I wouldn't,t use sealer but that is me. Others use sealer.
{sealer is specifically designed for Base coat clear coat applications, the sealer makes the whole job one color and the paint therefore matches without patchy spots, which it would have if it was sprayed over two different bottom colors.}
When you color sand it do it wet. I start with 1000/1200 and go to 1500/2000.

Your paint supplier should have given you the tech sheets on your stuff. Sounds like he didn't. Here they are for your primers.

http://www.pc.dupont.com/dpc/en/US/html/visitor/common/pdfs/b/product/nsn/Nason/491-55.pdf

http://pc.dupont.com/dpc/en/US/html/visitor/common/pdfs/b/product/nsn/Nason/421-17_421-19.pdf

Hope everything goes well and wish ya luck.

Take your time, making sure garage is clean and keeping floor wet will keep the dust down and out of your paint.

Hope it helps
Lou
Wetting the floor is good but allow a little humidity to leave before painting, the temp will raise in the shop immediately after watering the floor, then drop off drastically after the majority of the air dries out again. That's what happens in my shop...

Good Luck!
 

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I hope you received a reducer for your colder temps. In any case, I would wait between final coats as long as possible (check tech sheet and film set-up) to avoid runs and sags due to low flash-off. It's been quite a while since I painted regularly, but those were some considerations. I always sand wet, and with a flex block (flats) or backing pad (curves). Same grits as Arabian. I only sealed the bare metal with etching sealer. No second sealer later as it's already sealed, but use what you have been told to unless advised otherwise - it won't hurt if you lay it smooth.

Gruff counter help is unfortunately common, as they deal with pro's that have few questions and are in-and-out. Cha-ching. You are a relative pain for them. Bummer. Your choices are to find a shop that realizes and wants the hobby guy's business, or do all your homework beforehand and just tell them what you want when you go in. Good luck and post pics!

David
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Thanks so much for the help so far.:tup:

Here's a couple pics.

I also read at other places that guys don't use these 3 types of primer. I understand and would like to keep it as easy as possible but the other opinion is that 3 applications of primer is more practice before I spray the final paint coats and that's not a bad thing. As long as the primer isn't screwed up.

I'm sure that after I spray and sand the sandable urethane primer that I will find some more dings and dents that don't show now but that's ok.

I replaced the right front fender. It bolted on and lined up nicely I welded on a new rt rear quarter skin. It was not so nice. It was a lot of work and didn't line up well at some places. I had to put bondo over the top weld seam. If I knew then I would have spent more and replaced the entire quarter panel instead of just the skin. Oh well.:(

I really prefer to sand with an electric sander. It's flat and about 4 by 6" (not a round da sander) so it smoothes out wavy and uneven stuff nicely. If I have to wet sand then I don't think I can use this. I do have a flat air powered sander. I'm worried about a bunch of hand sanding work as my health is declining. I'm trying to get this project done while I'm still physically able to.

Haven't found a smaller than 1.7 sprayer valve yet, will keep looking.

Ordered all new weatherstrip to install when the paint is done:)
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Please remove ALL the Black primer from the fender and quarter before applying regular primer. It will save you a lot of heartache down the road. not many primers stick well to that black oil base chinese junk...
You know, I'm not surprised at what you say. Thanks for you time and great info.:tup:

I asked a couple of people in the past about that black primer and nobody gave me a solid answer. My plan was to just rough it up a little with 400 grit and move on.

This car was white originally then painted red over the white then again painted blue over the red and white. That was thick so I used a grinder and lots of hours to grind it all off.

As thin as this primer is I will dry sand and it should come right off. Then the car will be all bare metal except for the bondo (a lot less than there used to be.)

I've had this car 20 years. It looked good when I bought it and then ran excellent when I rebuilt the motor (351w) in 1992. I owned it for about 5 months and, my fault, got nailed hard on the right rear quarter. I was disgusted.:( I just hammered it out, slapped on a bunch of bondo and turned it into my work car.

The unibody is still tweaked a little and that's mostly why the new quarter doesn't fit exactly.
 

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not really... I paint and clear and prime and clean my guns with a 210,000 BTU Forced air Diesel heater shooting out about 1 10" flame burning at 40 gillion degrees, and I haven;t blown up yet....
Man you have bigger balls than I do. But I have seen what happens when things go bad.
I also have big BTU forced air heater. One of the other reasons ( other than don't want to go boom) is don't want to stir up dust/dirt.

sealer is specifically designed for Base coat clear coat applications, the sealer makes the whole job one color and the paint therefore matches without patchy spots, which it would have if it was sprayed over two different bottom colors.
If you are getting patchy spots then you aren't putting on enough color.

Sealing panel will let you cover with less coats/paint, but so will covering panel with primer.
But.... Are you getting true color with less coats? Doing a test card will tell you how many coats you need for coverage and to get true color.

For example: 2 panels using same paint color to topcoat.
Panel "A" has two different colors mostly orig paint and the primer you put over the repair
Panel "B" has sealer over whole panel

Painting panel B it only takes 2/3 coats to cover, no patchy spots, color looks even. Etc.

Painting panel A 2/3 coats panel still looks patchy. It takes 5/6 coats to get paint even/right.

Ya see where I am going here?

Panel B with 2/3 coats looks good but it is not the true color. The color of the sealer will effect it. If the sealer is a lighter color the paint color will be a little lighter. If sealer is darker or black the paint color will be darker.
Because even tho the 2/3 coats of paint look even it was not enough paint for complete coverage and not true color. We know this because panel A took 5/6 coats for complet coverage of the colors underneath.

Doing a test card will tell you how many coats you need for coverage.

When i use sealer ( which isn't very often) it is to lock down everything underneath. So when you spray the color overtop the thinner/reducer in color doesn't eat into the substrate's , older paint, older primer, and do weird things. Like rings/hallows, crazing, lifting, etc.

If you look at the tech sheet for the primer Blulakr is using It says sealer is not required. If it was me I would see if they would take it back. But JMO

Lou
 

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I hope you received a reducer for your colder temps. In any case, I would wait between final coats as long as possible (check tech sheet and film set-up) to avoid runs and sags due to low flash-off. It's been quite a while since I painted regularly, but those were some considerations. I always sand wet, and with a flex block (flats) or backing pad (curves). Same grits as Arabian. I only sealed the bare metal with etching sealer. No second sealer later as it's already sealed, but use what you have been told to unless advised otherwise - it won't hurt if you lay it smooth.
+1 on using the correct temp reducer, and extended flash times with the lower temp's
Also if you don't have flex blocks or backing pads you can use a paint stick to keep it flat.

Lou
 

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Discussion Starter #12
+1 on using the correct temp reducer, and extended flash times with the lower temp's
Also if you don't have flex blocks or backing pads you can use a paint stick to keep it flat.

Lou
I have a gallon of single stage paint and a quart of reducer.

I have a 5 gallon propane can with a radiant heater screwed to the top of the tank and also a good size electrical heater. Both of them should keep the garage 60 degrees or better even with a vent going. 2 car garage with 10 ft ceiling.

I dont know what a flex block, backing pad or paint stick is that you talk about.
 

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Man you have bigger balls than I do. But I have seen what happens when things go bad.
I also have big BTU forced air heater. One of the other reasons ( other than don't want to go boom) is don't want to stir up dust/dirt.



If you are getting patchy spots then you aren't putting on enough color.
not the type of color change I was talking about, but yes, if you put a schitt ton of base over two different color of primers you will eventually get the same color. But it saves material to use the same base of the color will almost always look odd in my experience. That's all.
Sealing panel will let you cover with less coats/paint, but so will covering panel with primer.
But.... Are you getting true color with less coats? Doing a test card will tell you how many coats you need for coverage and to get true color.
and take as much as an hour out of your day....
For example: 2 panels using same paint color to topcoat.
Panel "A" has two different colors mostly orig paint and the primer you put over the repair
Panel "B" has sealer over whole panel

Painting panel B it only takes 2/3 coats to cover, no patchy spots, color looks even. Etc.

Painting panel A 2/3 coats panel still looks patchy. It takes 5/6 coats to get paint even/right.

Ya see where I am going here?
that's exactly the point I was trying to make for the sealer. :)
Panel B with 2/3 coats looks good but it is not the true color. The color of the sealer will effect it. If the sealer is a lighter color the paint color will be a little lighter. If sealer is darker or black the paint color will be darker.
that's what I said but I only used 3 words rather than 40 :)
Because even tho the 2/3 coats of paint look even it was not enough paint for complete coverage and not true color. We know this because panel A took 5/6 coats for complete coverage of the colors underneath.

Doing a test card will tell you how many coats you need for coverage.
takes too much time from my day...
When i use sealer ( which isn't very often) it is to lock down everything underneath. So when you spray the color overtop the thinner/reducer in color doesn't eat into the substrate's , older paint, older primer, and do weird things. Like rings/hallows, crazing, lifting, etc.
Yes that's another good reason but in blending a panel on my watch, my primer comes out to the level of the clear on the panel being covered, so any solvents in my base will only be settling on the primer edges and not the earlier primer sealer bondo of the dealer paint/previous repairs, thus I have no worries of a reaction in the edges of the under layers, because they're covered by my primer...
If you look at the tech sheet for the primer Blulakr is using It says sealer is not required. If it was me I would see if they would take it back. But JMO

Lou
I have been painting a while, but not that long ago I was a beginner, and I found that a BC/CC is the best paint combo to go with foe ease of application, cleanliness of overall color application, and forgiveness for farkles. All for the following reasons.

1: Base coat dries very fast to the touch regardless of temperature, if you get a bug to make footprints in your base coat, you've got a HUGE bug problem. Normally a bug can be hiding on my wall waiting for me to base a car, by the time I make my pass on the panel the bug is intending to target and the bug leaves the wall and fights through the fog to the panel it's dry enough that nothing bad will come of it. Before my second pass on a car I use a non sticky tack cloth which removes any incidental hairs or fibers or bug peckers that my have been drug across it (without leaving the sticky residue a normal cloth leaves), and by that time all the in room bugs will be on the floor or lethargic and non caring about the color on the car any longer. And my second coat is usually perfect as far as base coats go.

2: Learned a bug lesson abotu a year ago... Bugs LOVE CLEAR.

3: Bugs are super attracted to the smell of clear, that's why I wet outside my shop before clearing to keep the bugs on the ground where the grass and dirt are fresh smelling and interesting to them.

4: Before I spray my clear and After I have my base coat on but BEFORE I do the final non sticky tack cloth run, I load up about 4 ounces of clear, and I set the spray pattern like a squirt bottle, I walk the length of my shop and shoot that clear up into the corners of the wall and ceiling from about 4 feet away. That simple spraying brings out every last living creature in the shadows but the spiders. And 20 minutes later you can wipe down the car, even spray another fog coat of base coat if you want, then give it 20 minutes, then apply your clear without prejudice towards bugs.

That has improved by clear laying TEN FOLD. I don't holler at bugs anymore because the way I do it takes them all out of commission or brings them out of the wood work BEFORE they can do damage by sleeping in my clear...

Works for me, and I need it to work because my shop is a 53X28 piece of tin with barely any insulation, a horrible bug problem in the spring and summer, spiders all winter, and paint jobs that need to be above acceptable.

Bugs on TOP of the final coat of clear are never a problem, but in the first two coats you're in for some ragging from the owner if he sees the occasional bug pecker broke off inside the clear....

Hope that little bit of what I go through helps you out.

FE
 

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I have a gallon of single stage paint and a quart of reducer.

I have a 5 gallon propane can with a radiant heater screwed to the top of the tank and also a good size electrical heater. Both of them should keep the garage 60 degrees or better even with a vent going. 2 car garage with 10 ft ceiling.

I dont know what a flex block, backing pad or paint stick is that you talk about.
Single stage is cool, you can apply a cover coat. Wait, color sand out any bug peckers, and re-cover.

You can also coat, wait, coat, wait, coat etc... Get good heavy coverage, allow a week to fully cure, color sand and buff.

If anyone notices the bug peckers, tell them they're imagining things :)
 

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I have a gallon of single stage paint and a quart of reducer.

I have a 5 gallon propane can with a radiant heater screwed to the top of the tank and also a good size electrical heater. Both of them should keep the garage 60 degrees or better even with a vent going. 2 car garage with 10 ft ceiling.

I dont know what a flex block, backing pad or paint stick is that you talk about.
Never had radiant heat not sure what it is . But as long as there is no open flame while you are spraying.

Haven't painted single stage in long time but do remember it covers well. You should be fine. ESP if car is all in primer or sealer.

Flex block, backing pad, or paint stick is used for hand sanding. You wrap or stick the paper to the pad then sand the car. Pad keeps paper flat and gives better finish.

Lou
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Single stage is cool, you can apply a cover coat. Wait, color sand out any bug peckers, and re-cover.

You can also coat, wait, coat, wait, coat etc... Get good heavy coverage, allow a week to fully cure, color sand and buff.

If anyone notices the bug peckers, tell them they're imagining things :)
:D :D

This time of year I see little or no bugs in my garage. Most of them are in the house where there's food and it's warm.

My car has several imperfections that will show after I paint it but that's ok to me. Not looking for perfection, that's more work than I can do.

Got the rt rear quarter and right fender ground down to metal today like you said. Good idea, thanks.


Now the car's all bare metal except there's a couple of spots of bondo. I've spent alot of time on that. It's pretty smooth and should not be noticeable after paint.

When I spray the first coat of etch primer on bare metal some of it will overspray onto the bondo, is that bad??
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Flex block, backing pad, or paint stick is used for hand sanding. You wrap or stick the paper to the pad then sand the car. Pad keeps paper flat and gives better finish.

Lou
Ahh yeah, got a couple different size of those as well as rolls of sandpaper to clip onto the blocks.

Thanks Lou:tup:
 

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takes too much time from my day...
It takes about half hour max. I don't do test cards on everything just when getting a mix that doesn't cover well. Plus rather know upfront if it will take more coats than normal may need activator.


Yes that's another good reason but in blending a panel on my watch, my primer comes out to the level of the clear on the panel being covered, so any solvents in my base will only be settling on the primer edges and not the earlier primer sealer bondo of the dealer paint/previous repairs, thus I have no worries of a reaction in the edges of the under layers, because they're covered by my primer...
Then you really don't need sealer. A example where I would use sealer.

Customer brings a car to me to spray they got ready, different colors,feather edges, primers and such.
I would definitely use sealer on such a job.

I have been painting a while, but not that long ago I was a beginner, and I found that a BC/CC is the best paint combo to go with foe ease of application, cleanliness of overall color application, and forgiveness for farkles. All for the following reasons.
I agree. All I use is BC/CC also makes future repairs/touch up easy.


1: Base coat dries very fast to the touch regardless of temperature, if you get a bug to make footprints in your base coat, you've got a HUGE bug problem.
another cool thing with base oat is if you get a bug, dirt or imperfection in your base you can sand it out. Wait till base dries 10 minutes or so. Put some pre-cleaner in mixing cup. Take some 1000grit paper and wet it with the pre-cleaner. And sand the problem out. Wipe dry, and put more base on.

Normally a bug can be hiding on my wall waiting for me to base a car, by the time I make my pass on the panel the bug is intending to target and the bug leaves the wall and fights through the fog to the panel it's dry enough that nothing bad will come of it. Before my second pass on a car I use a non sticky tack cloth which removes any incidental hairs or fibers or bug peckers that my have been drug across it (without leaving the sticky residue a normal cloth leaves), and by that time all the in room bugs will be on the floor or lethargic and non caring about the color on the car any longer. And my second coat is usually perfect as far as base coats go.

2: Learned a bug lesson abotu a year ago... Bugs LOVE CLEAR.

3: Bugs are super attracted to the smell of clear, that's why I wet outside my shop before clearing to keep the bugs on the ground where the grass and dirt are fresh smelling and interesting to them.

4: Before I spray my clear and After I have my base coat on but BEFORE I do the final non sticky tack cloth run, I load up about 4 ounces of clear, and I set the spray pattern like a squirt bottle, I walk the length of my shop and shoot that clear up into the corners of the wall and ceiling from about 4 feet away. That simple spraying brings out every last living creature in the shadows but the spiders. And 20 minutes later you can wipe down the car, even spray another fog coat of base coat if you want, then give it 20 minutes, then apply your clear without prejudice towards bugs.

That has improved by clear laying TEN FOLD. I don't holler at bugs anymore because the way I do it takes them all out of commission or brings them out of the wood work BEFORE they can do damage by sleeping in my clear...

Works for me, and I need it to work because my shop is a 53X28 piece of tin with barely any insulation, a horrible bug problem in the spring and summer, spiders all winter, and paint jobs that need to be above acceptable.

Bugs on TOP of the final coat of clear are never a problem, but in the first two coats you're in for some ragging from the owner if he sees the occasional bug pecker broke off inside the clear....

Hope that little bit of what I go through helps you out.

FE
Man I feel for ya with the bugs. My first shop was located beside a stream. Huge bug problem. Even hung bug zappers everywhere to help. Helped a little but still big prob.

Got pretty good with tweezers and hemostats getting bugs out.

My shop now is basically underground in small old industrial complex. Can't remember last time seen a bug.

Lou
 

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:D :D
When I spray the first coat of etch primer on bare metal some of it will overspray onto the bondo, is that bad??
Not at all, the bonbdo will suck your etch prime right up tight inside and you'll barely know it's there. you will need to primer your bondo more than once and sand it also. Bondo pulls in water paint primer whatever touches it.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Weather is supposed to be warmer, 60 degrees tomorrow and friday. Hope to wash it then tape it tomorrow. Wipe it down and spray the first 2 types of primer friday.

I'll post pictures. Thanks for the help
 
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