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Discussion Starter #21
Well, I have bypassed the pink resistor wire from the ignition switch and now have 12V going to the MSD Blaster II coil and Pertronix I ignitor module. She started up quickly, as usual but without even giving it a bit of gas, she idled straight away. Not really usual for a cold start. I usually have to feather the throttle a bit for several seconds before she can idle on her own.

I dropped her in gear with the "cold" light on and she didn't stutter like she does normally until she's up to temp.

Hmmm... Could there already be an improvement? I'll take her out tomorrow morning as I just did this tonight. My neighbors would like it much if I took her in the dead of night... :p

More later after the test drive.


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Just don't leave the key switch in the RUN position unless the engine is actually running.

David
 

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Discussion Starter #23
Well, I have to say that I am very happy I asked and started this thread! The car runs like it never has before and takes quick throttle movements with no stumbles and vacuum readings are higher and more stable. Overall, much smoother running at all rpms, much better idle quality and more torque than ever.

As I mentioned before, I only asked because of the different threads on the subject which made me wonder if I had made a mistake in the installation. Otherwise, because I didn't really have a low voltage problem (perceptible), I driven it till it fried the Ignitor!

Thanks again to all that guided me through this.

PSIG- I won't leave the key on without the engine running. :)

To sum up:
Pertronix I with MSD Blaster II coil- 12V, full voltage, bypass resistor wire!


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Discussion Starter #24
UPDATE:

Well, I guess FE was right... Blaster 2 coils need to be connected to the resistor wire! My coil went south the other day!

So, now I am running with a standard coil (my spare one) using the resistor wire with a switched 12V connection to the Pertronix Ignitor I.

Now all is good even in 40 degree F weather. :)


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The dwell angle is most likely defined into the Pertronix modules and likely not adjustable. Have never measured it nor worried about it either. I would suspect the dwell designed into it may be slightly greater than the normal point settings due to the fact the modules probably fire at a faster rate with a higher rate of rise.
Have run both Pert I and III modules and always left the pink wire in circuit with no negative effects. Pertronix always recommends bypassing the pink wire but they don't actually say it won't work.
Stock ford coils and any other coil requiring a ballast, AFAIK, should still be run with the pink wire to avoid damage to the coil. Also if a Faria tach is connected it still needs the pink wire for proper function and to protect the tach.
R
 

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So I just installed my Ignitor 1 with a stock coil and my directions say to measure the resistance of the coil between the + and - and make sure it is a minimum of 1.5 ohms which mine was 1.6. Mine does not have a ballast and I measured the voltage at the wire that was on the positive which was 12.5 with the key on. So with that said it runs just as good as it did with the points however I am still going to ask do I need to add a ballast resistor? My wire going to the + is a thick red with light green stripe.

Thanks.
 

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I get real damn sad when I'm right all the time. :(

JD, your 66 falcon red wire with green stripe (STOCK wire I hope) feeding the coil is the Correct one to use with your aftermarket coil, with a blaster I and Blaster II coil and ALL Accel super coils that I've ever come across, even the silly Flame Thrower coils use the ballasted voltage to run.

When in doubt look up instructions for the brand of coil you're using. It will tell you 12V or 12 V through a "special" ballast in the first 2 or 3 lines.
 

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i think PSIG's point was that *all* coils should still have the ballast resistor if you're running a first-gen Ignitor- because the dwell control is crude (like points) and you'll cook the coil.
 

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Sorry Gary I failed to mention this is on my 68 Wagon 390. My coil is some no name or maybe a Wells replacement coil. My instructions say if there is no ballast DO NOT USE ONE, however I don't know what factory wire goes to my coil originally. The red with green stripe runs to the factory harness so I assume its the correct one. If this same wire has been running my coil with the points for at least a year and a month then what would make it burn up my coil now that I added the electronic conversion? How long would the coil last with 12V if its not supposed to have 12V? Oh and I have the Pertronix Ignitor it does not say 1, 2, or 3 anywhere.

Edit: I just looked up a Wells one and it says use with external resistor or resistor wire in factory harness. Ugh! So do I need to get a ballast resistor? I am not positive its a Wells coil I will have to look at it tomorrow to see if I can figure it out.
 

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JD-

the ballast would be the pink wire between the ignition switch and the firewall.
measure the voltage with the engine running, not with just the key in "run".
 

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Sorry Gary I failed to mention this is on my 68 Wagon 390. My coil is some no name or maybe a Wells replacement coil.
listen closely
My instructions say if there is no ballast DO NOT USE ONE,
ALL FORD IGNITION WIRING FROM the EARLY 60's to the 70's WERE RESISTORIZED in themselves. The Factory Ford Wiring and therefore all instructions that come with Ford Replacement Coils will tell you to not use a ballast if there was not one with the coil you replaced {some ballast's are actually mounted on the coils} because FOMOCO wiring INCLUDES the ballast resistor in the form of the Pink under dash resistor wire.
however I don't know what factory wire goes to my coil originally. The red with green stripe runs to the factory harness so I assume its the correct one.
YES this is the Correct one. It will READ 12V on a Multimeter because there is no LOAD on the wire when using a Meter, only under a draw will the voltage reflect the reduced volume.
If this same wire has been running my coil with the points for at least a year and a month then what would make it burn up my coil now that I added the electronic conversion?
Like Cutt and PSIG have said, increased dwell will overheat a coil, but I've done it this way for the last 15 years I've been using Accel and Pertronix style units and never lost one coil.
How long would the coil last with 12V if its not supposed to have 12V?
This time frame all depends on coil location, and how long it stays hot, and how far it expands and contracts when it gets hot and how elastic and tough the internal windings and insulation are. Heat kills due to the breakdown internally , be it windings shorting out, or the oil coolant overheating and leaking internally, things like that.
Oh and I have the Pertronix Ignitor it does not say 1, 2, or 3 anywhere.
replace your coil, drive the car or run the engine, and see how hot your coil gets. It could be that someone had removed the Pink Resistor wire up under your dash and you're running a solid 12V to the coil all the time. The only way to tell is to look.
Edit: I just looked up a Wells one and it says use with external resistor or resistor wire in factory harness. Ugh! So do I need to get a ballast resistor? I am not positive its a Wells coil I will have to look at it tomorrow to see if I can figure it out.
I said all this above before I read your Edit.... USE a run of the mill Chrysler (firewall or inner fender mounted) porcelain resistor if you cannot locate the pink wire going to the firewall plug from the pigtail off the back of your ignition switch.


I wish you luck.
 

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The 'pink' wire which is fords ballast is usually a part of the underdash harness. It is covered with a cloth sleeve for insulating and heat purposes. If you locate it and can pull back the sleeve it should be printed right on the pink wire every few inches 'resistor'. That's the only ballast needed with a stock ford coil. Adding another ballast would drop the voltage and current flow too low. It's quite possible to see voltage as low as 6 v when engine running or ign on with points closed.
Some one asked how to identify what model Pertronix. Pert I is black, Pert 2 is red and Pert 3 is a total different design mounted on it's own breaker plate and uses no plastic ring as with I and II's.
R
 

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Ok thanks Gary that clears it up. It is all factory harnesses in my car nothing was cut or replaced except the end of my factory coil hot wire just to replace the ring terminal. I will just run it as I have it. :)
 

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A few clarifications, because the comments do not state clearly (except the last one) whether we are talking power to the module or to the coil. It matters and is part of the general confusion about the PerTronix systems. If in-doubt, see post #3. Also note that "resistor", "ballast", and "pink wire" are functionally the same thing.
Have run both Pert I and III modules and always left the pink wire in circuit with no negative effects.
That you are aware of. ;) If you mean a resistor to the module, then the answer is never, as explained previously. If you mean resistance to the coil - while the P-I should be run with the resistor to the coil (see post #3), the P-III should not. PerTronix even states that it will work (run), but that the spark power will be much reduced, and the multi-spark feature will not function. A lot of money to have it work like a P-I with a rev-limiter!
Pertronix always recommends bypassing the pink wire but they don't actually say it won't work.
You mean to the module? They don't say it won't work, because most of the time, it will seem to work fine. Seem to. I know (and have proven several times) otherwise, with full explanations as to why. PerTronix is caught between giving the impression it is a "drop-in" system, yet saying that it is to be wired without resistance to the module - complicating the process. Not really a drop-in when done properly. They do not mention how your engine will quit quickly if the alternator stops working on the way home, or clearly tell you how you may not get your engine started with a low battery - if the resistor is left in-line to the module. I believe their instructions are a bit misleading, although they do actually tell you to do it a certain way if you keep reading, and I understand they are also in it a profit business. I have no issue with profit. Just the unclear part. I will also repeat what you said - "Pertronix always recommends bypassing the pink wire...". In any case, I will say that wiring it as in post #3 will make it run correctly, better, longer, and more reliably than other methods.
Stock ford coils and any other coil requiring a ballast, AFAIK, should still be run with the pink wire to avoid damage to the coil.
With a P-I, yes. With the other versions, no. See post #3, and explanations as to why in other posts. FWIW

David

The pics were taken directly from PerTronix-I Ignitor directions. Center text and color added for clarity. Remember, no resistance to any module version, and resistance to the coil for P-I only:
 

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In that case then I need to take the Pertronix red wire off the coil and run it to a switched 12V that is only hot in the run position? What I don't get is that my instructions clearly show 2 diagrams one with the red to positive side of the coil for if you don't have a ballast, and the other shows it running to the ignition wire side of the ballast if you do have a ballast. Copyright date on my instructions is 9/1999.
 

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In that case then I need to take the Pertronix red wire off the coil and run it to a switched 12V that is only hot in the run position?
No, that's not what the image shows. It shows running the red wire to full battery voltage (ignition switch output before the resistance) in both START and RUN.
What I don't get is that my instructions clearly show 2 diagrams one with the red to positive side of the coil for if you don't have a ballast, and the other shows it running to the ignition wire side of the ballast if you do have a ballast. Copyright date on my instructions is 9/1999.
Correct. However, the instructions were written for all brands of cars. All Fords with stock point ignitions have resistance before the coil. All of them. If your system and wiring is stock, you have resistance, and therefore you need to use the diagram (yours or mine are the same) showing the wiring for use with a resistor/ballast/pink wire.

If you have another brand car, or a modified ignition system, then that is a special case and the wiring may be different. If so, then we would need to know the exact setup with all components to verify which method would be correct for best and most reliable operation. Part of the confusion is that most Ford owners have no idea they have coil power resistance in the system, and believe they should wire it up like it does not have resistance.

So, do you have stock Ford wiring? If not - how was it modified, and what non-stock components does it use?

David
 

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JD, if you look closely (ignore the writing) you will see the RED pertronix module wire going before the use of the ballast resistor, in a FORD, that would be under the dash technically... That's likely why it seems confusing to you. All Fords of the 60's & 70's need a separate power for the pertronix Red wire. in order for the pertronix to properly function as an on off switch. With a full 12V it's more sensitive to the magnetic pulse and gives a stronger on off signal to the coil.


Run the red to 12V Key ON and Key in Crank (ensure this wire does NOT get 12V in the ACC position.

Run the red with blue stripe to the coil + like it was before...
 

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I have to disagree with some of the comments. I have run a Pert I in my mustang for 15 years and it has always had the pink wire in circuit. It has always run perfectly. Always started though I can't say I have experienced a low batt condition that might have made it more difficult.

Pertronix always recommended bypassing the pink wire 'for best performance' they say. I don't say they are wrong and of course they are in the business of making money so they will say whatever they feel is best for them.

In my case I ran a rally-pac which requires the pink wire to be in circuit so the tach would work correctly and also to not damage it. So I didn't have any choice as long as I was using the rally-pac.

I also initially installed a Pert I in another ford and also left the pink wire in circuit since the rally-pac has been relocated to it from the mustang. So once again it needs the pink wire in circuit.

Then decided to replace the Pert I with a Pert III. My MSD timing controller wouldn't work with Pert I but does work with the Pert III. I'm still running the pink wire with the rally-pac and it still works just fine. The multi-strike and rev limiter still work as far as I know. I have observed the multi-strike part though I can't say I have pushed it to the rev limiter. Though that's not an important criteria for me.

The way I set mine up and have used it has worked for me whether it's right or wrong, never had any problems and never had a failure. Had it shown any problems I would have done what is needed to correct the problem. And I never had to do that. Either I did it right or was just lucky. Still lucky I guess!!
R
 
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