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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I popped off my valve covers today to replace a leaking gasket and noticed that my push rods have been rubbing on the guide plates! It is the EXACT same wear marks on each and every last push rod inside this 400! I probably shouldn't have used the stock push rods but I didn't think that there would be a problem with them. I will take a few pics in the morning but I think it may be a good idea to replace the lot of them, clean up the debris, and try again.
 

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I popped off my valve covers today to replace a leaking gasket and noticed that my push rods have been rubbing on the guide plates! It is the EXACT same wear marks on each and every last push rod inside this 400! I probably shouldn't have used the stock push rods but I didn't think that there would be a problem with them. I will take a few pics in the morning but I think it may be a good idea to replace the lot of them, clean up the debris, and try again.
wow push rods rubbing on the plates .
you saying the push rods should'nt rub on the plates ?

rub by the stud end ? with you post on the rocker thread (what rocker do you have) , mean your set up isnt correct ? Stock P/R's with plates ?
thought everyone knew thats a no no
 

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Yep, that's the whole idea of using hardened push rods. So the guide plates will keep the push rods and everything in line.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 · (Edited)
wow push rods rubbing on the plates .
you saying the push rods should'nt rub on the plates ?

rub by the stud end ? with you post on the rocker thread (what rocker do you have) , mean your set up isnt correct ? Stock P/R's with plates ?
thought everyone knew thats a no no
Guess I'm learning something new every time I open my hood, huh. I might have 80 miles on this engine and the last thing I want is for it to self destruct just because I reused the stock push rods.

So which push rods would you lot recommend?
These are the least expensive hardened push rods I could find on summit
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CCA-7656-1/
 

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d

Guess I'm learning something new every time I open my hood, huh. I might have 80 miles on this engine and the last thing I want is for it to self destruct just because I reused the stock push rods.

So which push rods would you lot recommend?
These are the least expensive hardened push rods I could find on summit
COMP Cams 7656-1 - COMP Cams Magnum Pushrods - Overview - SummitRacing.com
to bad you didnt have Manley 3/8" raised plates , got a set of Manley 9.500/3/8 for $82 shipped .

need the right rockers .. Crane 1.73 (yes for Ford) for extra $200 , thats if you get the Man./G/plates
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Re: d

Actually I have a set of Harland Sharpe roller rockers.



I didn't know about only using hardened push rods that are meant to be used with guide plates before this particular incident, basically got a really good deal on a complete set of 2v heads for my 400.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Torkair
I know you just got it together an all but you need to pull the motor and drop the pan clean out all the metal out of the pan. I would also epoxy a magnet in the bottom of the pan too.
My fiance will literally MURDER me if I end up taking the motor back out... Would a full oil change, new filter, and a magnet wrap on the filter be enough or is this an all or nothing situation?

I guess I could always clean up that baffled CJ pan I have laying around and stick it on in place of the one that is on there already...
 

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Even with mild, stock push rods something doesn't sound right there if the guide plates have taken that much metal off the push rods.

I've had my engine set up for years through 2 rebuilds using the same hard push rods(black someting coated) and guide plates and I have barely a witness mark on any of them from the guide plates.

I think something is out of wack. It could just be the push rods warping if you have some significant valve springs but most of that generally happens in the middle like a bow effect. Your pushrods may be bent now though. You may have some kind of a thrust issue with your rockers pushing the pushrods into the sides of the guide plates. The guide plates are too narrow for the push rods or the push rods are too large for the guide plates. I have to think that something more than just stock push rods is going on.

As hard as it is to hear, you don't want that metal bouncing around inside your engine. The crank and cam will knock that stuff around and windage will throw it everywhere in there and it will do significant damage before it does finally get trapped by the oil filter. By then its too late.

post: rockers could be just barely touching the retainers on the valves and throwing them to the side so that the pushrods slam into the sides of the guide plates? whoever tapped the threads for the screw in studs and knocked down the bosses may not have got them perfectly straight?
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
After pulling all the pushrods and inspecting everything I'm more inclined to think that it was a combination of installer error and 40ish year old push rods. The rockers that were tightened properly had pushrods that simply had a bit of a "polishing" pattern to them whereas the ones that had more slack had more wear, the worse the slack the worse the wear. I screwed up
 

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Dont feel bad, I had the same thing happen to me. "new" 351c built by someone else.

My cam also flattened 2 lobes.

I'd at least change the oil and filter twice.

Metal from that type of wear is too small for filter to trap but will wipe out bearings.

I ended up pulling my pan and rolling in a new set of bearings as my rod inserts were hammered.
 

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Even with mild, stock push rods something doesn't sound right there if the guide plates have taken that much metal off the push rods.

I've had my engine set up for years through 2 rebuilds using the same hard push rods(black someting coated) and guide plates and I have barely a witness mark on any of them from the guide plates.

I think something is out of wack. It could just be the push rods warping if you have some significant valve springs but most of that generally happens in the middle like a bow effect. Your pushrods may be bent now though. You may have some kind of a thrust issue with your rockers pushing the pushrods into the sides of the guide plates. The guide plates are too narrow for the push rods or the push rods are too large for the guide plates. I have to think that something more than just stock push rods is going on.

As hard as it is to hear, you don't want that metal bouncing around inside your engine. The crank and cam will knock that stuff around and windage will throw it everywhere in there and it will do significant damage before it does finally get trapped by the oil filter. By then its too late.

post: rockers could be just barely touching the retainers on the valves and throwing them to the side so that the pushrods slam into the sides of the guide plates? whoever tapped the threads for the screw in studs and knocked down the bosses may not have got them perfectly straight?
You had Hard en p/r's . OP has stock oem p/r's , not made for plates .
 

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After pulling all the pushrods and inspecting everything I'm more inclined to think that it was a combination of installer error and 40ish year old push rods. The rockers that were tightened properly had pushrods that simply had a bit of a "polishing" pattern to them whereas the ones that had more slack had more wear, the worse the slack the worse the wear. I screwed up
Did you forget to say you had BBC rockers ?
 

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Did you forget to say you had BBC rockers ?
I have not seen where he said any thing about Big Block Chevy rockers on his motor here or the other forum I see him on? But i did find this

I still feel it would be better to get a set of gently used correct roller rockers than use new rockers for the wrong application.
 

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two ways to go at it.

convince the ol' lady to let you drop the pan & clean the stuff out. While its off, pull a cap or two and inspect. Better to know you're not going to window the block while cruising down the road with her in the car than to worry about it. But it's your (and your lady's) conscience (and budget).

The other way would be to say screwit. Stick a magnet on teh filter and glue a couple onto the oil pan sump. Speaker magnets work well. I actually have a few magnets at work made specificatlly for oil filter use...might try one in an FL-1A filter one of these days. Looks like it'll fit just fine. Speaker magnets work, and also those cheap Neodymium magnets that can be bought off of ebay. Super strong, small, lightweight, and you won't need to glue one to the pan. They stick on their own...get the right one (flat) and good luck getting it back off. I think magnets are kind of cool to mess with but thats just me.

My experience with pushrods was similar. I didn't pull the pan. Usually when they wear like that, the metal is pretty fine. Goes right through the pump pickup, through the pump, then usually the filter catches 99% of it. But if you don't get the pan off, buy a few extra filters and change it initially, run it a while, then pull the filter & cut it open. You'll be watching for copper/brass filings. If you see any, your bearings are eating themselves up and it's time to pull it. The magnet on the end of the filter also helps trap the ferrous metals (iron/steel) and helps you see them easier when opening up the filter. My experience...same thing I did, change the filters often, didn't see anything out of the ordinary, ran it for another 70 some odd thousand miles before the bores were totally shot.
 

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I have not seen where he said any thing about Big Block Chevy rockers on his motor here or the other forum I see him on? But i did find this
Don't have to say . His last post from that thread gives the clue to the the use of BBC rockers

Add . why I say that , he changed his tune
 
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