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Discussion Starter #1
I have researched the TW and TW-R as well as the RPM heads. I am thinking that for a hot street-strip car would like the TW-R heads for the bigger CID of this stroker. I have heard conflicting stories about the reliability of each head. The Summit people (located in te same town as the Trick FLow company) reccomend unanimously the TW heads. The folks I bought the stroker kit from (coast Performance) is located in Edelbrock's home town, they suggest RPMs. Hmmm....

I am looking for an unbiased opinion please.

What head will last the longest on the street and what will perform the best?

Oh, and if you have any available, I am looking.
 

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I don't know about streetability', (don't do that chit), but as far as what your motor needs............I'd go with AFR 205's, or even better their newest KILLER head, the 225's!
Killer out of the box flow numbers. You're n big block country now, boy, so saddle up!
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I am looking for streetability as well as durability. I want to drive this forever without rebuilding every time some punk in a camaro wants to play "read my license plate" with me.
 

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Go to airflowresearch.com and read up. One of the articles there has a formula for sizing heads. Using their example they demonstrated why the 165s were a good fit for a streetable 302. 205s or 225s may well be streetable based on 408cid.
This has been said many times but there was a lot of power "under the curve" when the AFR185s were bolted onto the FMS 392 crate motor. But I believe that was before the 205s and the 225s were introduced. AFRs flow.
 

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Uh, I think I'd buy the AFR 205's. Thats just my unbiased opinion. For a street/strip engine they flow enough to satisfy a 408.
They are setup for a roller cam also. Don't short cut on the heads, you'll pay more later.
 

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Remember, you're feeding big block displacement through small block heads. GO BIG. The AFR 205 would be about perfect for a hotrod street 408. For serious RPM, I'd go even larger. Be sure to use plenty of carb, intake, cam, and exhaust as well. 408ci requires a LOT of breathing room.


How tight are you planning on revving it? If you want to spin it up to 6000 street rpm, a cam with around 240 degrees of intake duration would be about right. Mix this with a Victor Jr, 950 HP Holley or Biggs carb, 1 3/4" or 1 7/8" headers with a 3" exhaust and you're in business.


Good Luck!

Good Luck!
 

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Recheck probe and coast's websites. They now offer cnc ported vic jr heads on their sites for your application. Don't know the cam specs but, a buddy built a 408 for a customer this summer and it made 535hp with stock vic jrs. Wait a couple of weeks, Chilly and Drag are getting ready to dyno a couple of 408's with AFR heads. See what it brings them.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Thanks for the great advice. So far it looks like the preferred racing head is AFR. Whether to use the 205 or 255 depends on my rev limit.

I plan have an absolute max at 6500, with more often than not keeping it close to 6000. I would like to make peak power at ~5000 RPM, peak TQ at 4000-4500. My cam is a roller F303 (226/[email protected] - [email protected]).

1.6/1.7 rockers undecided so far. Lower lift is easier on the springs, so I am leaning towards the 1.6.

Streetability with the ability to SMOKE a Viper when the opportunity presents itself. All without EFI in a body over 30 years old. Now that's bound to get some attention.

So what flow numbers should I seek? Maybe 300 I, 275 E unported? I plan to do a port match no matter what. Gasket match is not necessary from what I have read.
 

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AFR 205's and a Comp Cams XE282HR. Should do the job nicely. Ditch the F303, not enough dur/lift for a big dog, they work good in 302's though.

_________________
65 Mustang: 5 speed, 3.73's, RAP Ported GT-40 Irons, xe258hr cam, Perf. RPM, 600 cfm Carter AFB, Jacobs ignition
66 Mustang: 289-2V, 3spd, Slipping Clutch, Bashed-up Front End

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: oldmustangjunkie on 2/28/02 11:14pm ]</font>
 

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I plan have an absolute max at 6500, with more often than not keeping it close to 6000. I would like to make peak power at ~5000 RPM, peak TQ at 4000-4500. My cam is a roller F303 (226/[email protected] - [email protected]).
Definite red flag here... You're going to need a cam about like Chilli460 recommended. It will take around 240 degrees @ 0.050" of intake duration to reach your goals. Larger engines need larger cams than smaller engines to achieve the same rpm powerband. That "F" cam would have a hard time making much power past 5k rpm. It would be strong off idle, but would wheeze-out big time on the midrange and top end.

Do you have a Sportsman or 94' roller 351 block? If you do, these are set up for the hydraulic roller lifters like the "F" cam and the Comp 282HR. If not, you're looking at a set of $400 retro-fit lifters to run a hydraulic roller. A solid or hydraulic flat tappet cam might be in your future if you have a regular block and don't want to buy those $400 Crane units.

Good Luck!

_________________
Mike Burch, 66 mustang real street
302 4-speed 289 heads, 10.63 @ 129.3
http://www.geocities.com/carbedstangs/cmml_mburch.html
http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/healey/367

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: n2omike on 2/28/02 11:51pm ]</font>
 

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Discussion Starter #12
I am running a stock roller block. I want the largest "area under the curve" possible, shooting for 500RWHP (~1.2hp/ci). As heads get smaller and smaller cc chambers, valve to piston clearance becomes an issue with higher lift cams, so does spring pressure and wear on valvetrain components. Rollers offset the cam-lifter wear, but rocker and valve stem stregth become more important. If only money were not an issue. I shot my wad on the bottom end of this stroker.

Got to admit that this board seems to have the best response of any forums I have visited so far. I want to thank everyone for the advice as it seems right on.

If I take all this advice, I will need to get wheelie bars and a 'chute for my rocket.
 

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With the "F" cam, you're just wasting your time with the stroker... unless you just want to tow a trailor or something.

Really... what will happen on the street, is the excessive bottom end will blow the tires off from a stop, but the engine will run out of steam in the midrange due to the small cam, and you will be seeing taillights. I outran a 69 Camaro with a 421 small block racing top end on the interstate because of this. He could do burnouts all day long, but just wheezed out in races.

You NEED a cam around 240 degrees @ 0.050" on the intake if you want to come close to your 500hp goal. I don't recall your compression... but if it's 9.5 or less, go with around 234-236, if you've got more, something closer to 240 will fit the bill.

The largest hydraulic roller I see on their website for the Ford is the XE282HR (232 @ 0.050"
, but if you give them a call, they can grind you something a bit larger. They have 236 and 240 roller lobes they can use.

http://www.compcams.com

Crane has an aggressive hydraulic roller. It measures 244/256 @ 0.050" with 0.595" lift, and would work well for midrange and top end. It has a 110 degree lobe seperation, which would be great for a carbed application. You can check it out here... But, if I were you, I'd look into something around 236-240 @ 0.050" in the intake.

http://www.cranecams.com/master/apps/ford18.htm

BUT, you DEFINITELY need to sh*t can the "F" cam. Sell it, and put the money towards the appropriate camshaft. It would be a shame to build that killer engine, only to cut the balls off it by installing a wimpy cam. You NEED the larger cam to let all those inches breathe!


Good Luck!

_________________
Mike Burch, 66 mustang real street
302 4-speed 289 heads, 10.63 @ 129.3
http://www.geocities.com/carbedstangs/cmml_mburch.html
http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/healey/367

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: n2omike on 3/1/02 5:44am ]</font>
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Okay, here's what I am going to try:

411 CID @ 10.1:1 CR forged all around
Comp Cam's HR-244/372-2S-10 (244/256,.595,110)
AFR 205's port matched to
Vic Jr. polished with 1" riser
1.6 rockers to keep lift to < .600
GOOD set of springs and valves (TBD)
Edel 1411 750CFM carb

Anyone wanna hear what kind of ET's I have when I get done? Should be at the track by April.

 

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i took a look at the AFR heads bare with guides at Bob GROMM racing heads. they looked nice. not bad at all. i run vic jrs, on a 355W. i know we are building a stroker here. just thought id let you know. that combo will be plenty streetable. more than you think. mine is so mild i wonder about it sometimes.it is 244/252 @ .050. or im just way too used to it by now. no offense but the 1411 carb you might want to rethink. a little more air going in will be better. much mo betta. 950HP or 830HP. if you havent check out the grocery getter on my site.
 

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For sure, you're using/going to use too small a carb. Like everyone's been saying...........You've got a big block now. You've got to feed it big block meals. (i.e. BIGGER CARB)..............)



(BEEN THERE.........DONE THAT..........)
 

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On 2002-03-01 09:26, mustangzrule wrote:
Okay, here's what I am going to try:

411 CID @ 10.1:1 CR forged all around
Comp Cam's HR-244/372-2S-10 (244/256,.595,110)
AFR 205's port matched to
Vic Jr. polished with 1" riser
1.6 rockers to keep lift to < .600
GOOD set of springs and valves (TBD)
Edel 1411 750CFM carb
Everything sounds great except for the carb. It's too small. The best carb for it would be a Holley 950HP or Biggs 950. These have smoothed out 750 sized throttle bores with an 850 baseplate. The 750 sized throttle bores provide a great signal, and the carbs make great power all the way through the rpm range.

Good Luck!
 

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i do!!

well if i had moeny....
and an engine to put it on...
and a few other things... hehe
 

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To give an idea about strokers....
I recently finished my 393, and got to run it for the first time the other day. I expected the horsepower to peak in the 6500 rpm range. Turns out, it breates well enough to turn 7500+, but I'm kind of afraid to spin it that fast with stock rods. Vic. Jr. intake, 850 carb, vic jr heads(out of the box), JE flat-top pistons, 260-264 @ .050" .672-.672 solid roller. I would choose the vic. Jrs if it was me, leave them stock. That way, when the time comes that you want more power, a little port job will help a lot.
 
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