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Serious questions about stock 429 rockers and solid flat tappet cam. Warning, very long!

OK, well the saga continues. I am still trying to get my 83 mustang 429 swap completed. Everything was done so I thought. Now I have to open my damn engine again because the guy who sold me the cam told me it was a hydraulic when I indeed found out from the guy who ground the cam that it was a solid (he came to gainesville for the races this weekend). I was all set up to use the stock channel type rockers on my DOVE heads on with the cam. I had to use 1 washer under the posi lock nut to have enough threads to engage the lock. If I put the guideplates in I may have to use more washers and I don't have the cash to shell out for roller rockers. I put in fully threaded studs instead of the shouldered ones that come stock. Everything looked fine geometry wise. Now I need to put in solid lifters. Here begins the questions. 1) How do I adjust the lash on the channel type rockers and what should I adjust them to cold is it .025 (seems like a lot)? 2) Is this going to be alright with a .560 lift cam that will see 6K rpm max? 3) Also is there anyway I can salvage the intake manifold gaskets as the engine has not been run.

I already had to take this engine apart because I found a cam dowel pin on my shelf and got paranoid. The pin was in however! Better safe than sorry.

Sorry so long,

Thanks,

Greg Havemann
 

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Serious questions about stock 429 rockers and solid flat tappet cam. Warning, very long!

I realize Chebbie is a dirty word amoung us guys who bleed BLUE, but beg, borrow or steel some BB chebbie studs and rocker arms. Then get a set of guide plates (they aren't too expensive, even if you have to get cleveland and whack them in half). You are all set for the short haul, don't you agree?
 

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Serious questions about stock 429 rockers and solid flat tappet cam. Warning, very long!

The factory did not use the rail type rockers with solid cams. I don't know of anyone using these with a solid either. The Super Cobra Jets used the later model stamped steel rocker arms. The lift is also too high for the rail types. A change to the stamped steel versions is probably the cheapest way to go. You could even swap a set from a later engine and mount them on Chevro____ Studs. The guide plates are probably not a necessity, but are good insurance. Good Luck!
 

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Serious questions about stock 429 rockers and solid flat tappet cam. Warning, very long!

I forgot to add that if you do use the later model stamped steel rockers,throw away the bolt down sled type fulcrums and use Boss 302/351 Cleveland type fulcrums.
 

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Serious questions about stock 429 rockers and solid flat tappet cam. Warning, very long!

1970GALAXIE

Just for info since I am not knowledgeable of your knowledge on the 385 engines.

The SCJ/CJ heads used casting number D0OE-R.

The DOVE head is the stock truck/passenger car head that used 'positive stop studs' for the hydraulic cams. The C9VE, D0VE and the D1VE heads are basically the same except for mounting hole changes, etc.
 

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Serious questions about stock 429 rockers and solid flat tappet cam. Warning, very long!

I would not use the rail type rockers with a high lift cam and stiff springs.A buddy of mine tried it and it chewed the valve tips up really bad.By the time we checked it the rails were starting to push on the valve keepers.If he would have run it much longer the valve would have dropped into the cylinder,bye bye engine!
 

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Serious questions about stock 429 rockers and solid flat tappet cam. Warning, very long!

chuck they rail rockers in the trash...because as mentioned above they will turn your engine into trash. You have the non-shouldered studs already....get the guideplates and some non rail adjustable rockers. You really need adjustable valvetrain anyway.
 

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Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
Serious questions about stock 429 rockers and solid flat tappet cam. Warning, very long!

I was afraid of that. Now I have to get roller rockers. The guideplates that I have that are supposed to fit a 460/429 are off on one pushrod by about a 1/8". Is it OK to file these guideplates to fit? Also are the big block chevy studs shorter than the replacement ford ones?

Thanks,

Greg
 

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Serious questions about stock 429 rockers and solid flat tappet cam. Warning, very long!

Don't file the inside of the slots. If you do anything, cut the guide plates in half and the position them so the rockers rides the valve tip properly. I have done this most on all of the cleveland and BBF's I have built to correct the pushrod/rocker alignment.

BTW, to cut the guide plates, you will need to use a cut off tool or a diamond crusted hacksaw blade (well, may not be diamonds but one that will cut thru the harden steel). A regular hacksaw blade will dull before it makes much of a mark on the guide plate.
 

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Serious questions about stock 429 rockers and solid flat tappet cam. Warning, very long!

#1 Never use a rail rocker as an adjustable unit. #2 You should never need to cut the guide plates I have built these engines for over 20 years & have yet to see any problems. #3 the 429/460 guile plates are cheap, same price as a Cleveland, or BBC. #4 all the valve train parts are the same price i.e. fulcroms. I'd just break down & buy a set of good rockers, in the long run it's a good investment... pay me now or pay me later?
 

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Serious questions about stock 429 rockers and solid flat tappet cam. Warning, very long!

qtrmiler

Not doubting your statement of never having to cut any guide plates, but I have had to cut the guide plates on 351c's and BBF's to center the roller on the valve specially with some higher lift roller cams.
 

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Serious questions about stock 429 rockers and solid flat tappet cam. Warning, very long!

So the guideplate is only held in place by the stud? Also are the BBC studs shorter?

Thanks,

Greg
 

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Serious questions about stock 429 rockers and solid flat tappet cam. Warning, very long!

Yes, the end you install the rocker on is a little shorter.

BBC from bottom of jam nut to top of stud is 1.750

BBF/B302/351c is 1.900
 

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Serious questions about stock 429 rockers and solid flat tappet cam. Warning, very long!

You'll need an adjustable valvetrain to go with the solid cam you've got. Rail type rockers aren't for use with solid cams.

Luckily you've got the D0VE heads that already come with screw-in studs... but they don't have guide plates. The rockers are centered over the valves with the channels of the rail type rockers. You'll need to add guide plates. You'll also need new screw-in studs that are threaded further down than the stock Ford units.

Placing guide plates under your screw in studs will raise the hex nut part of the stud up the thickness of the guide plate. This may or may not cause interference with the rocker. If it does, the stud boss in the head (where the stud is screwed in) will need to be milled down so the hex nut of the stud will sit lower.

SO... Get a set of guideplates, fully threaded studs, and some non-rail rockers and see if there is any interference between the bottom of the rocker and the stud nut. If not, you're in luck. If not, you'll need to pull the heads to have the stud bosses milled for clearance.

Even though roller rockers are thicker on the bottom, and would give less clearance, I'd still recommend them for the lift of your cam. Be SURE to re-check the rocker arm geometry.

Good Luck!
 

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Serious questions about stock 429 rockers and solid flat tappet cam. Warning, very long!

how come you people havent menchend hardend pushrods to go with the gide plates????

it woud be a shame for greg to get .
it all back togeather with stock pushrods and chew the pushrods on the gide plates
and get steel shavings in the motor
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Serious questions about stock 429 rockers and solid flat tappet cam. Warning, very long!

Thanks guys. I will get on it!

Greg
 
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