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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So talking with someone in the junkyard they said they warped their heads on their 1980's mustang 5.0 by deleting all the emissions junk, they said that you need to hook the smog pump directly up to the air injection ports on the exh when you delete the smog stuff, as over the next 6mo - 2yrs the heads/valves will warp as they don't have the 'cool' air of the air injection to keep them form overheating or something. I thought this was BS as the early v8's never had these systems and are very close in design. any merit to what he was saying at all?
 

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So talking with someone in the junkyard they said they warped their heads on their 1980's mustang 5.0 by deleting all the emissions junk, they said that you need to hook the smog pump directly up to the air injection ports on the exh when you delete the smog stuff, as over the next 6mo - 2yrs the heads/valves will warp as they don't have the 'cool' air of the air injection to keep them form overheating or something. I thought this was BS as the early v8's never had these systems and are very close in design. any merit to what he was saying at all?
what's it like to talk to someone that doesnt know ...what he's talting about
 

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Total BS. A smog pump is supposed to promote burning of raw fuel in the exhaust. This would increase exhaust temps. Your source is full of crap
 

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Not the air pump, for the reason already stated. EGR is the one that cools combustion temps - but it wouldn't do anything for warping heads. Of the 'emissions' stuff, EGR is the only one that actually increases performance and mileage. :tup: Most cars factory-tuned for the various emissions stuff will generally run worse or get reduced mileage until re-tuned for the lack of it, except EGR. EGR will run worse at cruise without re-tune, but you won't get all the mileage back without it.

David
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
EGR will run worse at cruise without re-tune, but you won't get all the mileage back without it.

David
I followed what you said in the rest of your post, but I am not sure what you mean by not getting the mileage back, are you saying mileage will decrease when egr is removed and the engine is tuned for the delete?
 

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Not the air pump, for the reason already stated.

EGR is the one that cools combustion temps - but it wouldn't do anything for warping heads. Of the 'emissions' stuff, EGR is the only one that actually increases performance and mileage. :tup:

Most cars factory-tuned for the various emissions stuff will generally run worse or get reduced mileage until re-tuned for the lack of it, except EGR. EGR will run worse at cruise without re-tune, but you won't get all the mileage back without it.

David
:confused:

You really confused me here Dan EDIT- DAVID. Can you expound please?

ATTN: mumbles-

Please allow Dan EDIT- DAVID to reply because you keep buzzing my shields with your mealy mouth and your general attempt to communicate with lack of teeth and vowels...

Guess I am going tom have to acquire a roster. All of the UNUSUAL SUSPECTS begin to sound the same after awhile... :frown:
 

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:confused:

You really confused me here Dan. Can you expound please?

ATTN: mumbles-

Please allow Dan to reply because you keep buzzing my shields with your mealy mouth and the general attempt to communicate with lack of teeth and vowels... :frown:
you quote a post of PSIG (David) and ask for Dan to expound .

I'd be glad to explain it to you klutz . why ? you wouldnt understand anything . plus the post won't show on your screen
 

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you quote a post of PSIG (David) and ask for Dan to expound .
Sorry, I got my MOE-RONS mixed up.

mumbles stammered and sputtered furhter[/b said:
I'd be glad to explain it to you klutz . why ? you wouldnt understand anything . plus the post won't show on your screen
Please explain it to me. I need a good laugh this morning.

I will get back to you ASAP because I will most likely have to run it through my KLINGON TRANSLATOR.

Please keep race and hate out of it.
 

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Sorry, I got my MOE-RONS mixed up.



Please explain it to me. I need a good laugh this morning.

I will get back to you ASAP because I will most likely have to run it through my KLINGON TRANSLATOR.

Please keep race and hate out of it.
Oh ,klutz , you think PSIG is a what ?

klutz your care taker would have to slap some sense into you . tell him no more pats on the head for the klutz , just slap the $hiz out of you . that's your first step to understanding what you post . few , ok many years and slaps later , work will start on what others post
 

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Oh ,klutz , you think PSIG is a what ?

klutz your care taker would have to slap some sense into you . tell him no more pats on the head for the klutz , just slap the $hiz out of you . that's your first step to understanding what you post . few , ok many years and slaps later , work will start on what others post
OK... Let's drop all of the BS.

Simply put, Dave made a statement that I asked him to explain. His panties wadded and he went off the deep end. Who cares?

Now you slobbered in and volunteered to answer my question originally asked of him. Are you going to answer the question or just spit all over the room?

And could you please keep it within one page and one post?
 

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So talking with someone in the junkyard they said they warped their heads on their 1980's mustang 5.0 by deleting all the emissions junk, they said that you need to hook the smog pump directly up to the air injection ports on the exh when you delete the smog stuff, as over the next 6mo - 2yrs the heads/valves will warp as they don't have the 'cool' air of the air injection to keep them form overheating or something.

I thought this was BS as the early v8's never had these systems and are very close in design. any merit to what he was saying at all?
I don't know redtail. The guy sounds like he would make a damn good participant here. What he said is no less plausible than some of the posts here.

I am just dying to learn about this EGR theory. It will set back Detroit years... :rolleyes:

(Make sure you put on a spit mask so mumbles won't get you when he finally revs up)
 

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OK... Let's drop all of the BS.

Simply put, Dave made a statement that I asked him to explain. His panties wadded and he went off the deep end. Who cares?

Now you slobbered in and volunteered to answer my question originally asked of him. Are you going to answer the question or just spit all over the room?

And could you please keep it within one page and one post?
get your diaper changed and a few good slaps . make it very hard slap and more than a few
post by PSIG on the EGR is a little off
EGR's do cool the combustion , are open only at part throttle , more timing can be had with a leaner mixture . removing the EGR requires extra fuel for part throttle , less timing or higher grade of fuel .
tuning to keep the same mpg , can be a job and a half. when done right less throttle angle is needed . WOT , very little gain if any . idle remains the same when either way is used , if tuned correct
 

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get your diaper changed and a few good slaps . make it very hard slap and more than a few

post by PSIG on the EGR is a little off

EGR's do cool the combustion , are open only at part throttle , more timing can be had with a leaner mixture . removing the EGR requires extra fuel for part throttle , less timing or higher grade of fuel .
tuning to keep the same mpg , can be a job and a half. when done right less throttle angle is needed . WOT , very little gain if any . idle remains the same when either way is used , if tuned correct
Explain how EGR cools combustion? A lean burn increases combustion temperature doesn't it? I thought EGR was designed to take care of excessive hydro-carbons? If it cools the burn, why do so many applications include an EGR cooler?

I also thought running slightly rich used the extra fuel for a coolant (or it did when I raced)?

Oh, that's right! You are a hands-on guy and what you post is gospel. If the thing runs so cool, why don't you put your hand on the valve and report back how cool it is?
 

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:confused:

Gee...

Now I know why EDELBROCK offers intakes with EGR application. I am learning so much here.

I will have to sit on my hands to keep waiving at everyone.
 

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:confused:

mumbles must have gone to be fitted for a new oral appliance. I guess he will be back later.
 

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Explain how EGR cools combustion? A lean burn increases combustion temperature doesn't it? I thought EGR was designed to take care of excessive hydro-carbons? If it cools the burn, why do so many applications include an EGR cooler?

I also thought running slightly rich used the extra fuel for a coolant (or it did when I raced)?

Oh, that's right! You are a hands-on guy and what you post is gospel. If the thing runs so cool, why don't you put your hand on the valve and report back how cool it is?
hands on is right on klutz ...

hand on the back of your head klutz and slap till the tongue hangs out . place your tongue on valve and watch reaction ,plus listen to the scream

like posted you wouldnt understand
 

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I followed what you said in the rest of your post, but I am not sure what you mean by not getting the mileage back, are you saying mileage will decrease when egr is removed and the engine is tuned for the delete?
That is correct. Sorry I didn't word it so well the first time. EGR is a fairly simple, yet very complicated issue as there are so many ways to use it and multiple effects it has. I'll just touch on a couple of the common uses, as it would fill a book or five.

Light EGR at cruise - The OEMs have traditionally used light EGR at part-throttle to enhance efficiency at cruise. A secondary effect is to reduce NOx emissions due to combustion cooling.

Problem - part-throttle reduces cylinder filling and effective compression. Two primary effects are pumping losses where the engine uses power to suck a vacuum against the nearly closed throttle, and low dynamic compression costing combustion efficiency. Opening the throttle would help both issues, but would lean the mix too far, and adding more fuel to suit would just make more power and cost mileage. So, instead we add an inert filler. Exhaust. The engine regains pumping efficiency as it doesn't have to waste as much power trying to suck more air in, and our dynamic compression and burn efficiency improves with the filler as there is more stuff to squeeze. Yay.

But with more compression, we would have detonation with the lean mix and high advance we were using, forcing spark retard and losing the gains we wanted. However, due to the cooling nature of the exhaust mix, the advance and lean mix can remain without det. Yay after all.

This is why defeating the EFR on a factory carb car will make it run worse at cruise, and why an EFI car will throw a code. It's trying to pull fuel and add timing, but the O2 sensor isn't seeing what it should, and the knock sensor may be rattling too. We could reduce the advance and richen-up a bit to cover, but what does that do to our mileage and efficiency? ;)

Some setups use EGR cooling to improve the reliability of the EGR valve and actuators by reducing the heat and reducing carbon deposits. It also doesn't hurt to improve things even more with a cooler and denser EGR charge.

Rich EGR at WOT - Another use of EGR is as a power adder. Although there are a few functional similarities, forget the light EGR at cruise - this is different. If you add a bit of extra fuel, the engine makes carbon monoxide (CO) instead of carbon dioxide (CO2) exhaust. CO is a high-octane fuel. Your engine is now an octane factory.

So, adjust it all right, and you get high-octane fuel in your mix that is self-cooling. You can imagine the potential. 25 pounds of boost on regular pump gas. 800 hp and 50 mpg on a squeak of extra fuel but heavy re-burning. This has all been theory for a century, but Smokey Yunik was one of the first to make working demonstrator cars with his patent back in the '60s-'80s. Read-up on it. We haven't seen much yet, as the courts have been the biggest use of the patents.

While you can imagine either EGR system making best use with EFI than carbs, there are a number of performance and racing cars out there using it with either. Volvo is one that's reaching forward in-spite of the patents, with a 400+ hp 4-cylinder on regular pump gas and awesome mileage. Jaguar also holds patents. It's no coincidence that both were subdivisions of Ford, and why Ford is quietly going to EcoBoost technology. Unfortunately, with government subsidies focusing on alternative fuels and electric, we may never see the 70+ mpg gasoline muscle car in our future. That doesn't mean you can't build one like Smokey if you're intent on it.

David
 

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hands on is right on klutz ...

hand on the back of your head klutz and slap till the tongue hangs out . place your tongue on valve and watch reaction ,plus listen to the scream

like posted you wouldnt understand
You do realize that you are one ignorant SOB, right? :frown:

The only thing you use hands on for is discovering yourself most likely.
 
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