A while ago I asked if a TCI transmission was stout enough to handle my motor and was told to get a Performance Automatic instead.... ok i will. now im askin' if a TCI torque converter is good enough ? or are they "assembly line" also? Im not lookin' to break parts by saving money, but im not wanting to overspend either. thanks.
TCI torque converter question
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I don't recall reading your earlier post so I have no idea how much HP and tq you are putting out. I have a TCI I had cut open and inspected and the convertor place sneered at it, said it was a typical cheaply made convertor that sells based on brand name. He added that the "assembly line" lead to a lot of variations in the finished product. He showed me several of the fins which were missed when TCI brazed them but I stubbornly told him to fix it, which he did. I've got my fingers crossed.
Of course he'd love to upgrade me to a $500 custom convertor with a billet cover and an anti balloon plate, which he builds to order. I didn't think I needed all that with a mild 351W stroker. Time will tell.
Of course he'd love to upgrade me to a $500 custom convertor with a billet cover and an anti balloon plate, which he builds to order. I didn't think I needed all that with a mild 351W stroker. Time will tell.
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1,745 Posts
I will not use or recommend TCI anything. They sell based on name recognition. Not on quality.
There are many good converter companies out there. Edge edge is popular though I have never used them. Coan is good and JPT is good. Other as well.
Stay away from TCI, B&M and GER. The three worst.
There are many good converter companies out there. Edge edge is popular though I have never used them. Coan is good and JPT is good. Other as well.
Stay away from TCI, B&M and GER. The three worst.
I have been running a TCI in my 12sec car for over 3 years and not the first complaint. It stalls around 3500-3800 and sees some street duty as well as frequent strip time. Be careful of people paroting what they read from someone who has not tried a product. This is just my experence I don't know what others have experenced with this product.
This is not ment to FLAME anyone JMHO.
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Freddie on 3/8/06 8:02pm ]</font>
This is not ment to FLAME anyone JMHO.
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Freddie on 3/8/06 8:02pm ]</font>
arguably the best converters on the market are ATI and Coan. they use quality parts and have knowledgeable people to make recommendations. there's a good reason so many "names" use them, and it not cause they're cheap, or free. if you want your car to perform right, put the quality in it. the right converter really can make the car.
by the way, GER finally went down the road about a year ago, but there are others like them out there, still. i'm not saying there arent other good ones out there, but sometimes its hard to tell them from the not-so-good ones.
by the way, GER finally went down the road about a year ago, but there are others like them out there, still. i'm not saying there arent other good ones out there, but sometimes its hard to tell them from the not-so-good ones.
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BTW, I have had dealings with all of the companies that I mentioned in my post except Edge. I've dealt with others that are mediocer. I'm not repeating what I've read. Just FACT. When I started racing and dealing with transmissions, I was always looking for the cheapest product. It didn't take long to figure out that you get what you pay for when it comes to transmissions and converters. GER is/was one of the worst in quality. B&M and TCI aren't far behind. I've chucked up a TCI converter in a lathe that was so wobbly and out of true that I through it away. It wasn't even worth a core IMO.
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In my dealings Coan and JPT are very good. I typically use JPT for my own stuff since they are more Ford oriented.
_________________
Grabber Green '70 Mach I 351C 4V 12.32 at 111mph
Robin Egg Blue '79 Fairmont 408C 4V 10.50 at 127mph
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: clevelandstyle on 3/9/06 12:29am ]</font>
In my dealings Coan and JPT are very good. I typically use JPT for my own stuff since they are more Ford oriented.
_________________
Grabber Green '70 Mach I 351C 4V 12.32 at 111mph
Robin Egg Blue '79 Fairmont 408C 4V 10.50 at 127mph
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: clevelandstyle on 3/9/06 12:29am ]</font>
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300 Posts
I've never run a TCI, i've always used ATI. Someone told me that if youre' not spending at least $700 on a converter (performance application) that you're not getting a good converter. Mine cost right at $1000......good converters cost money!!!
I bought the TCI 8" 5500 in 1986 and ran it every weekend for 5 yrs and never touched it. The splines where the input splines engage stripped this year and I decided to take it to some one who is a super stock racer who builds converters and let him look at it. He said years ago TCI use to be a good converter and then went to the assembly line, put it out the door, however he said he thought they may have a good product now. Most guys I race with use TCI, ATI and a lot are now getting good results from Hughes.
ok i get it, i kinda thought i was gonna be out 500 bucks on an emerald converter i was just hoping i would be saved. i have tried to go cheap on everything possible and i have found NO WHERE on this build that i can save a buck, thanks for all of your help guys..... maybe my Autozone Bosch plug wires will be good enuff.... shhhhhhhh-
My next converter with definitely be a Neil Chance bolt together.....would consider ANY of the others now. Their high end converters have no limit placed on them and are guarenteed for 12 months. Try to find that offered at any of the other converter manufactures!! And their list of national records is fairly impressive too.
I have tried the "cheap" route, you might as well flush your $'s and I've also tried an expensive Coan...the only trouble is if you change your combo or setup, they probably don't suit too well anymore. Its return to manufacturer to change....which nearly costs as much as a new one anyway!
If I can change my converter at home, thats a BIG plus for me...no cutting open and re-welding either.
Right....I'm down off my soapbox now....
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I have tried the "cheap" route, you might as well flush your $'s and I've also tried an expensive Coan...the only trouble is if you change your combo or setup, they probably don't suit too well anymore. Its return to manufacturer to change....which nearly costs as much as a new one anyway!
If I can change my converter at home, thats a BIG plus for me...no cutting open and re-welding either.
Right....I'm down off my soapbox now....
Not trying to flame you butOn 2006-03-08 23:57, cmf60 wrote:
My next converter with definitely be a Neil Chance bolt together.....would consider ANY of the others now.
If I can change my converter at home, thats a BIG plus for me...no cutting open and re-welding either.
Right....I'm down off my soapbox now....![]()
I hear they are great converters and in a car that is hard on thrust washers and breaks tranny parts they are great because they can be cleaned.
But what else can you do when they are apart besides clean them? Part of the big price of converters is not in the parts but knowing what to do to the parts. I cannot imagine you are going to experiment with fin angles on your own??
Great converters but a lot of people wonder where the advantage is to such a pricey one and they are big money over the rest of the quality converters.
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Most good companies don't chage that mush to get a re-stall. I just had one done at JPT and it was only $150. That's a far cry from the $850 original price.
I've run TCI for years with no trouble. The worst deal I;ve had was a 10" that arrived with burrs that prevented the shaft from entering the converter. It was exchanged and no problems were found with the replacement. It stalls right where the TCI tech said it would. They also recommended a higher stall based on my equipment and they were right, but I insisted on the one I have now. Yes, good converters cost money - if you have a decent engine then don't try to cut corners on the converter. For example: Art Carr makes inexpensive converters - I personally saw a car pick up over 1 second ET in the 1/8 mile switching from a "4000 stall" Art Carr to a "4000 stall" Hughes. The Hughes cost about $600 more than the other brand. Broader makes a really good converter in the sub $500 range and his get good reviews. The $800 models get a free stall change within one year if needed.
[/quote]
Not trying to flame you but
I hear they are great converters and in a car that is hard on thrust washers and breaks tranny parts they are great because they can be cleaned.
But what else can you do when they are apart besides clean them? Part of the big price of converters is not in the parts but knowing what to do to the parts. I cannot imagine you are going to experiment with fin angles on your own??
Great converters but a lot of people wonder where the advantage is to such a pricey one and they are big money over the rest of the quality converters.
[/quote]
No problem with flame out, I like alittle debate.....but let me tell my story and what was told to me.
Brought a cheapie converter for our "base" engine that was built many years ago, the intention being to sort the car alittle, prove the engine then sell it with converter and get our "good" engine in there with a better converter.
Numerous sources reccommended Coan so I contact them with our new engine specs. He says no problem, send us $1000 and its yours. I say - what happens if it doesn't work, we don't meet our hp goals or we change something. No problem but it will cost you $850 (from memory..it may have been $750) to change it! Why so expensive....because it has a "special steel stator because you are expecting 1000+hp". Ok, I have no intention of changing anything so its built and sent to me....6000 miles away.
Car is finished and the old engine goes in, despite it only running at 3/4 of its potential due to fuel supply issues, it kills the converter. I kick myself up the butt (hard to do!) for buying a cheap converter but think there's not too many $'s involved....but what do I do now? So I put the Coan in....totally unsuitable for this combo. Hhmmm....well thats not surprising but atleast its "driving" the car and not slipping at 14% or so like the cheapie was.
In the meantime, I get put in contact with a guy that runs the worlds fastest blow-thru turbo on the planet. I talk to him for "awhile" (sorry phone account) and he inspires me alittle. The new engine as is, will handle a similar setup with no parts changes as is.....except the converter.
I ring Chance converters. Can you do a converter to handle the "old" engine to keep me running with that AND the new engine....be it turbo or as originally planned. "No problem, the only change is the stator". What about the fin angles on the turbine and impeller? He repeats what he said and says..."its the last converter you'll buy". I say thank you...I'll let you know and hang up.
I sit back and access the situation....I've made the odd bad decision....I've got a stuffed converter.....I've got an un-matched converter that may work with one scenario but probably not with the other.
I then think what I have spent plus flushing both converters @ $40 each.
What exactly am I going to do with this thing over the next say, 10 years?? Not sure.
Then I think, if I'd brought a bolt together first - I could have covered all these bases as well as future aspirations. Sure I could send converters back and forth to get changed but particulary in our situation, its not a viable option. You guys would pay alot less freight wise...true, but they are fairly heavy to ship nomatter where you live and two way shipping takes time, as does cutting themopen and "changing" them and balancing. ("Hi, you guys finished my converter yet?"...."Ahhh, we are fairly busy. It'll been another week...sorry"). Smoke the clutches out of the trans for any reason....unbolt and wash out....save the "flushing" money for beer!
It just makes so much sense to me, I'm kicking myself that I didn't buy one first up. As far as the cost goes...sure they are alittle more expensive but to give you a comparison, ONE converter and an extra stator is WAY cheaper than two Coans plus you will never pay $'s for labour maintinance again!!
Back off my soap-box again .....now whats the disadvantages of bolt together??
:spin::spin:
Not trying to flame you but
I hear they are great converters and in a car that is hard on thrust washers and breaks tranny parts they are great because they can be cleaned.
But what else can you do when they are apart besides clean them? Part of the big price of converters is not in the parts but knowing what to do to the parts. I cannot imagine you are going to experiment with fin angles on your own??
Great converters but a lot of people wonder where the advantage is to such a pricey one and they are big money over the rest of the quality converters.
[/quote]
No problem with flame out, I like alittle debate.....but let me tell my story and what was told to me.
Brought a cheapie converter for our "base" engine that was built many years ago, the intention being to sort the car alittle, prove the engine then sell it with converter and get our "good" engine in there with a better converter.
Numerous sources reccommended Coan so I contact them with our new engine specs. He says no problem, send us $1000 and its yours. I say - what happens if it doesn't work, we don't meet our hp goals or we change something. No problem but it will cost you $850 (from memory..it may have been $750) to change it! Why so expensive....because it has a "special steel stator because you are expecting 1000+hp". Ok, I have no intention of changing anything so its built and sent to me....6000 miles away.
Car is finished and the old engine goes in, despite it only running at 3/4 of its potential due to fuel supply issues, it kills the converter. I kick myself up the butt (hard to do!) for buying a cheap converter but think there's not too many $'s involved....but what do I do now? So I put the Coan in....totally unsuitable for this combo. Hhmmm....well thats not surprising but atleast its "driving" the car and not slipping at 14% or so like the cheapie was.
In the meantime, I get put in contact with a guy that runs the worlds fastest blow-thru turbo on the planet. I talk to him for "awhile" (sorry phone account) and he inspires me alittle. The new engine as is, will handle a similar setup with no parts changes as is.....except the converter.
I ring Chance converters. Can you do a converter to handle the "old" engine to keep me running with that AND the new engine....be it turbo or as originally planned. "No problem, the only change is the stator". What about the fin angles on the turbine and impeller? He repeats what he said and says..."its the last converter you'll buy". I say thank you...I'll let you know and hang up.
I sit back and access the situation....I've made the odd bad decision....I've got a stuffed converter.....I've got an un-matched converter that may work with one scenario but probably not with the other.
I then think what I have spent plus flushing both converters @ $40 each.
What exactly am I going to do with this thing over the next say, 10 years?? Not sure.
Then I think, if I'd brought a bolt together first - I could have covered all these bases as well as future aspirations. Sure I could send converters back and forth to get changed but particulary in our situation, its not a viable option. You guys would pay alot less freight wise...true, but they are fairly heavy to ship nomatter where you live and two way shipping takes time, as does cutting themopen and "changing" them and balancing. ("Hi, you guys finished my converter yet?"...."Ahhh, we are fairly busy. It'll been another week...sorry"). Smoke the clutches out of the trans for any reason....unbolt and wash out....save the "flushing" money for beer!
It just makes so much sense to me, I'm kicking myself that I didn't buy one first up. As far as the cost goes...sure they are alittle more expensive but to give you a comparison, ONE converter and an extra stator is WAY cheaper than two Coans plus you will never pay $'s for labour maintinance again!!
Back off my soap-box again .....now whats the disadvantages of bolt together??
:spin::spin:
cmf60:
1. i know that coan or other companies dont charge 850 to restall their own converters.
2. i know ati will turn a converter repair around the same day if at all possible. depends more on the customer than ati. dont know about other companies.
3. i have known 5 racers who have had bolt together converters. 4 of them did not share your enthusiasm for bolt together converters. interesting odds?
possibly a bolt together is a good choice for you. your distance away in nz does create problems for you, but if they were as great as you think, none of these other companies would still be in business. perhaps you should try to talk to other users rather than just the manufacturer.
1. i know that coan or other companies dont charge 850 to restall their own converters.
2. i know ati will turn a converter repair around the same day if at all possible. depends more on the customer than ati. dont know about other companies.
3. i have known 5 racers who have had bolt together converters. 4 of them did not share your enthusiasm for bolt together converters. interesting odds?
possibly a bolt together is a good choice for you. your distance away in nz does create problems for you, but if they were as great as you think, none of these other companies would still be in business. perhaps you should try to talk to other users rather than just the manufacturer.
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I have never run or known anyone who runs a Chance converter.
My question is if you want to change the stall 200rpm, it just takes a new stator?
If you want to change the stall 1000rpm, it just takes a new stator?
If you want to go from a 9000rpm high winding 289 to a 557 torque monster big block it just takes a new stator?
Fin angle doesn't come into play? Chance will just send the parts and let some idiot wanna be expert to put it back together? (I'm not calling you an idiot. I just know a lot of them
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I just think there is more to it than that.
My question is if you want to change the stall 200rpm, it just takes a new stator?
If you want to change the stall 1000rpm, it just takes a new stator?
If you want to go from a 9000rpm high winding 289 to a 557 torque monster big block it just takes a new stator?
Fin angle doesn't come into play? Chance will just send the parts and let some idiot wanna be expert to put it back together? (I'm not calling you an idiot. I just know a lot of them
I just think there is more to it than that.
Dave,
1. $850 (or so...it was some time ago) is what Coan said it would cost to change the converter. No b/s. Like I said, I asked him why so expensive and he said because it had a steel stator. Just repeating what was told to me by Coan.
2. Sure, no argument. However Murphy's law states that when you need something in a hurry...you wait.
3. Who's converters and why were they unhappy?
I don't know "for sure" whether they are as great as I think, but a look on their website tells me that by the amount of "name" racers that use them and with the amount of national records that they are involved with, they aren't too shabby!! Check out their website if you haven't already- racingconverters.com If they guarentee their top of the line converters for 12 months at ANY hp says something.
Alot of people, like I initally did, look for a converter at a good price and there are alot of companies out there competing in the converter market. Now, after abit of a "learning curve", I think I would rather spend the extra $'s and get some versatility and user friendlyness rather than save afew bucks (initially).
C/S...yes. I know...its surprised me too. When talking to Chance, I told them both combinations we need a converter for...basically- #1 "high" revving cleveland mid sized stroker with 600hp (reccommended 6000 stall) and #2 smaller windsor configeration with blow/thru turbo, 1000-1100hp goal and much higher torque ofcourse(4000 stall)........he said they can do both engines with the same converter and would "merely" involve changing the stator for the other engine. That nearly compares with your 289/557 example.
The stators only fit one way, which we found out when we cut the cheapie open....so I guess yeah, any idiot could do it.
EDIT: I guess in some instances, changes may invole the impeller...I don't know, but thats the only two components that could be changed.
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: cmf60 on 3/10/06 8:42am ]</font>
1. $850 (or so...it was some time ago) is what Coan said it would cost to change the converter. No b/s. Like I said, I asked him why so expensive and he said because it had a steel stator. Just repeating what was told to me by Coan.
2. Sure, no argument. However Murphy's law states that when you need something in a hurry...you wait.
3. Who's converters and why were they unhappy?
I don't know "for sure" whether they are as great as I think, but a look on their website tells me that by the amount of "name" racers that use them and with the amount of national records that they are involved with, they aren't too shabby!! Check out their website if you haven't already- racingconverters.com If they guarentee their top of the line converters for 12 months at ANY hp says something.
Alot of people, like I initally did, look for a converter at a good price and there are alot of companies out there competing in the converter market. Now, after abit of a "learning curve", I think I would rather spend the extra $'s and get some versatility and user friendlyness rather than save afew bucks (initially).
C/S...yes. I know...its surprised me too. When talking to Chance, I told them both combinations we need a converter for...basically- #1 "high" revving cleveland mid sized stroker with 600hp (reccommended 6000 stall) and #2 smaller windsor configeration with blow/thru turbo, 1000-1100hp goal and much higher torque ofcourse(4000 stall)........he said they can do both engines with the same converter and would "merely" involve changing the stator for the other engine. That nearly compares with your 289/557 example.
The stators only fit one way, which we found out when we cut the cheapie open....so I guess yeah, any idiot could do it.
EDIT: I guess in some instances, changes may invole the impeller...I don't know, but thats the only two components that could be changed.
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: cmf60 on 3/10/06 8:42am ]</font>
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1,745 Posts
I just got my JPT converter back last week. I wanted it tightened up just a bit. Jim, or coarse, my not be telling all his trade secrets, but he did say he added a bit of clearance between the stator and impeller. No new parts and no fin angle change that he talked about.
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