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Discussion Starter #1
I got Teflon rings for my 70s C4 oilpump

But there are both greens and orange as seen in picture here

Anyone knows if I should use only the orange ones or a combination?
 

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Interesting you bring this up. Looking into it right now myself. Reason being it seems now the only kit supplied has the green rings @ .086" wide. Looks like you got lucky and they gave you the 4 small orange rings as well? My kit only has 2 orange rings for the high/reverse and 2 green for the forward. I was going to do some testing to see how they work. As it was the teflon rings were always a looser fit than a steel ring.

The Way it used to be , the kits used to come for 70-77 for the narrow ring grooves and had 2 black rings @ .063". The Narrow groove measures .098"

The kits for 78-86 came with the green rings @ .086" for the wider ring groove @ .128"

I'm still deciding if the .086" ring will work ok in the .098" groove??? Be interested to hear if anyone has run them that way ???
 

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Going by the pics ? two of the orange rings are smaller? Looks like you have the stator support with .098" grooves . I'm thinking the orange will be correct.

On the subject of rings , I only use teflons with a constant line pressure valvebody, steel rings with modulated line pressure
 

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Discussion Starter #6 (Edited)
In previous kit I got for a 1970 C4 there was 2 orange + 2 black + 2 green
That time I used the orange and black... This time only orange!

I checked the orange ring closer!
They are about the same thickness and also same outer diameter(same wire length)
But they are different depth!
I noticed also the grooves are different depth!

Deeper rings goes to the deeper grooves ??

Maybe steel rings ar safest to use? The car will have a 400hp 347cui stroker and will sometimes tow a caravan
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I am feeling very doubtful about these Teflon rings now.

They feels both flimsy and to thin.

I thinks I will use the regular steel rings instead.

Are there any big drawbacks about using steels?
 

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Here's what I do . If the valvebody runs modulated line pressure , use steel rings .
If a constant full line pressure use the teflons .
Believe it or not the teflons do seal very well and are required with the constant line pressure , in that situation the steel rings wear pretty quick
 

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I'd say you got it with the ring widths and groove depths . The teflons can be tricky to get in , pack in assembly lube in the groove and then sometimes need lots of oil down the ports to geta good air check. Then other times get near 100% seal testing with air .
That definitely have their place but in your case i'd use the steel rings . I always test every ring in the bore they will run in before fitting in the groove
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Here's what I do . If the valvebody runs modulated line pressure , use steel rings .
If a constant full line pressure use the teflons .
Believe it or not the teflons do seal very well and are required with the constant line pressure , in that situation the steel rings wear pretty quick
Thanks for your advice Greg!

I don't know what you mean with "modulated line pressure".
It is a regular 1974 C4 that got a Trans Go 40-2 Shift Kit
Bought also Broader Performance 500hp kit

So that would be modulated?
 

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Modulated pressure is controlled to a point by the vacuum supply to the modulator . High vacuum = low load so pressure is lower. As the load increases when accelerating, the vacuum drops then you get a line pressure rise . With the 40-2 kit with a yellow spring from memory pressure will be around 100-120 at light load and as vacuum drops will rise to around 150psi, the green spring gives near 200

In comparison , constant line pressure as in manual valvebodies will stay up around 180-200psi continually.

Go with the steel rings you will be fine.

Does that 500HP kit come with an information booklet like the C6 kit does ??
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Modulated pressure is controlled to a point by the vacuum supply to the modulator . High vacuum = low load so pressure is lower. As the load increases when accelerating, the vacuum drops then you get a line pressure rise . With the 40-2 kit with a yellow spring from memory pressure will be around 100-120 at light load and as vacuum drops will rise to around 150psi, the green spring gives near 200



In comparison , constant line pressure as in manual valvebodies will stay up around 180-200psi continually.



Go with the steel rings you will be fine.



Does that 500HP kit come with an information booklet like the C6 kit does ??

Thanks Greg!

I will use steel.

The 500hp kit comes with no instruction at all!

The C6 had great instructions!
 

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Will be good with the steel rings with that 40-2 kit .
I agree the C6 info with the kit is very good . Would thought the C4 kit would have similar . Oh well never mind. If you're not sure of anything just shout , will help where I can .

Now to find the early type thinner teflons here . Rang my supplier the other day as they only list the later kits. Maybe i'll end up machining the extra from the ring grooves to use the kit I have :)

Got to go there this week coming and go through their box of assorted broken kits and fingers crossed find what i need :)
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Will be good with the steel rings with that 40-2 kit .
I agree the C6 info with the kit is very good . Would thought the C4 kit would have similar . Oh well never mind. If you're not sure of anything just shout , will help where I can .

Now to find the early type thinner teflons here . Rang my supplier the other day as they only list the later kits. Maybe i'll end up machining the extra from the ring grooves to use the kit I have :)

Got to go there this week coming and go through their box of assorted broken kits and fingers crossed find what i need :)
Thanks Greg!

I noticed the upper pair of steel rings has a slight chamfer on both sides of the rings
Haven't seen it before and the the stock I removed had sharp edges

Are they OK?

Also the number 1 & 2 thrust washers I needed to replace since the lash was 1.7mm
I now set it to 0.5mm with new washers.
But are there other recommendations for this on high performance?
 

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They will be fine . Some are like that . Just checked a kit for one i'm doing now and they are chamfered a little . As long as they are snug in the grooves and fit in the bore they will run in nicely you'll be sweet.
I test every ring in the bore they will run. I had a kit a while ago that had one odd ring in it :(

I like to keep endfloat at the lower end of specs . 0.5mm or .020" is ok . I like to stay below that , on average .010"-.015".

You select the small #2 washer to set endfloat, then on the bech you must then select a #1 that is a snug fit . There is no relationship in matching them up. I did do a write up on here ages ago on teh correct way to set up.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
They will be fine . Some are like that . Just checked a kit for one i'm doing now and they are chamfered a little . As long as they are snug in the grooves and fit in the bore they will run in nicely you'll be sweet.
I test every ring in the bore they will run. I had a kit a while ago that had one odd ring in it :(

I like to keep endfloat at the lower end of specs . 0.5mm or .020" is ok . I like to stay below that , on average .010"-.015".

You select the small #2 washer to set endfloat, then on the bech you must then select a #1 that is a snug fit . There is no relationship in matching them up. I did do a write up on here ages ago on teh correct way to set up.
Great!

About the washers I use the same thickness on both....You mean the bigger should be thicker?
 

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Oh no, definitely not the same . They must be selected individually. Basically the small #2 washer sets the endfloat in the trans , then you follow the procedure to establish the correct #1 washer for the pump so as to keep the high drum snug.

I have redone the write up i did previous and put the pics back. Have a read , hopefully helps or I can talk you through it .

http://www.fordmuscleforums.com/c4-transmissions/633921-setting-c4-end-float.html#post2555353
 

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Discussion Starter #18 (Edited)
Oh no, definitely not the same . They must be selected individually. Basically the small #2 washer sets the endfloat in the trans , then you follow the procedure to establish the correct #1 washer for the pump so as to keep the high drum snug.

I have redone the write up i did previous and put the pics back. Have a read , hopefully helps or I can talk you through it .

http://www.fordmuscleforums.com/c4-transmissions/633921-setting-c4-end-float.html#post2555353
Great info Greg! You are an goldmine!

I checked it and it looks fine but even if they must be checked individually it is the #2 washer that determine the space for #1 as I see it
If #2 has to be 0.5mm thicker #1 has to follow with same value.
But best to check as your instruction anyway! You never know the life of the C4

I can't get #1 to "snug" fit as your instruction. The closest is a gap 0,012" but I guess it is correct since #2 has about the same.
Next #1 in size will go in but it is tight and about the same or slightly thicker than the gap
 

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You're onto it :) . I guess if it had been set up correct previous you'd be ok . But you never know for sure so best to check it right
 
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