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Discussion Starter #1
Hi,

I never enjoyed my 'stang yet due to the fact I had some spark issue, misfires, etc...

I added a MSD ignition box as per Steve Morris recommandation but the same day when I tried it, I had the TFI fried module symptoms (engine shut off at low speed, fluctuating RPM, ....) so I decided to change the distributor, coil and I purchase a TFI relocation kit for which I just completed the relocation. We'll start the car this week end...

The new TFI location is the best cool place, right in front of the radiator but not the best protected place from the rain. Do you know what I could do to protect it from the rain?

Some pics:









2 pics from the inside of the TFI, don't pay attention to the cut wires, it is me, I dismounted it prior taking the pics.

I can see some burnt spots so is it normal of fried TFI module?




Thanks,


Dylan
 

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Dylan, remote TFI modules are usually located on the engine side of the radiator support, off to the side to avoid direct splash and rising radiator heat at low speeds or after shutdown. They are sometimes mounted on the front of the support, but again off to the side to avoid direct rain and debris through the grille. They are mounted on a heat sink as you have done.

The connectors are a weather-tight design, though I use dielectric silicone grease on the connector halves, terminals and seals, and on the module mounting screws. I also use generic computer heat sink paste between the module and heat sink for best heat transfer. Your car is looking good!
:tup:
David
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thanks David.

The problem is I don't have room in the engine bay otherwise I would have put it somewhere else.

The passenger side is full of electrical wires, EFI ECU, starter solenoid, vacuum reservoir, relays and TB piping.

Driver is also full of things: procharger and air filter, MSD box, booster, master cylinder and coil and some piping as well.

I was thinking to add a water deflector bolted on the TFI?
 

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I would say if your connector is well-sealed, it should be fine as it is. A small deflector just over the connector area would also add insurance without blocking air circulation to the heat sink, but should not be necessary. You are only concerned with forced water into the connector. No problem if the connector is sealing properly.

David
 

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Discussion Starter #5
David,

As you can see on the closed up picture, the connectors don't fully cover the pin coming out the module. I was also thinking to add a heat srink then tape it up?

I'll see for the deflector but as it is not my daily driver, I don't want to try a supercharger 68 mustang on wet roads.

Thanks again for your eternal support.
 

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I'll see for the deflector but as it is not my daily driver, I don't want to try a supercharger 68 mustang on wet roads.
No problem. Grease 'em, shrink 'em, and go drive.
:tup:
David
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Everything was completed but the car did not start... Timing light broken... Eh eh eh LOL

By the way, does a ignition box with multi-sparks require a specifc timing light?

Current engine looks like this, much cleaner without the coil close to the distributor.

 

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By the way, does a ignition box with multi-sparks require a specifc timing light?
Ooooh... pretty! ;) Yes, multi-spark usually needs a compatible timing light to work right. I'm currently using an Equus Innova 5568 Pro Digital that is listed as compatible, and seemed worked fine on the one multi-spark car I tried it on for fun. It also works for single, dual (waste) spark, 2-stroke, 4-stroke, etc. But, it's a bit expensive to time one or two cars.

There are two other possibilities - a really cheap and dumb timing light can work, as they often can't fire fast enough to trigger brightly on the extra sparks. I would not buy one to try, but if a friend has one to borrow, you could try it.

More often than not however, I just bypass the multi-spark and time off the primary trigger. Whether you can do that, and how you would do that, depends on exactly what you are using for your trigger, box and coil. What makes and part numbers are you using in your ignition system?

David
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Ooooh... pretty! ;) Yes, multi-spark usually needs a compatible timing light to work right. I'm currently using an Equus Innova 5568 Pro Digital that is listed as compatible, and seemed worked fine on the one multi-spark car I tried it on for fun. It also works for single, dual (waste) spark, 2-stroke, 4-stroke, etc. But, it's a bit expensive to time one or two cars.

There are two other possibilities - a really cheap and dumb timing light can work, as they often can't fire fast enough to trigger brightly on the extra sparks. I would not buy one to try, but if a friend has one to borrow, you could try it.

More often than not however, I just bypass the multi-spark and time off the primary trigger. Whether you can do that, and how you would do that, depends on exactly what you are using for your trigger, box and coil. What makes and part numbers are you using in your ignition system?

David
I'm running MSD 6201.

My friend has a good timing light but there is no way to break it because of the multi sparks, right? LOL
 

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I'm running MSD 6201.

My friend has a good timing light but there is no way to break it because of the multi sparks, right? LOL
No, you won't break it, but it can't be a "good" timing light, or it will flash bright on every spark. I have only seen really crappy and cheap timing lights work OK on multi-spark for timing.

So, you have an MSD-6A, but what distributor are you using to trigger it? Stock 5.0L sequential or non-sequential TFI maybe? TFI modules can be triggered with many different distributors and triggers.

David
 

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While you're digging that info up for other options, the simplest (usually) is to bypass the MSD. Just re-connect the RED/GRN and GRN/YEL wires from the TFI to the coil. Fire it up and time it. When you're done, hook the wires back to the MSD's RED and WHT wires (and ORG and BLK to the coil of course) to enable it again.

David
 

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Discussion Starter #13
I was also thinking to the same thing as I have a spare coil, the disconnections will be limited to:

- Switched key to the igntion box
- White wire from the TFI connected to the negative side of the coil
- Igntion wire from the main harness on the positive side of the coil

And voila.... But my friend works this week-end so...
 

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Discussion Starter #14
So we bypassed the MSD box but we failed...

For a reason or another, it is impossible to give 10° of advance as required. Any advance shuts the spark on cylinder 1.... We can give as much retard as we want but no advance... It seems we are always out of the sensor but we never had any issue with the Summit distributor when we started.... I'm running a new MSD P/N 8456...

On below pic, we can see that there is a smaller "teeth" under the rotor so we understood it is for cylinder 1 so we put the sensor right in front of the "teeth" and it gives the second picture as we understood as TDC for cylinder 1 then we started to try to adjust the 10° of advance before firing the engine.

What the heck are we missing?



 

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Not sure yet. First, verify Cyl 1 using the "1" mark on the distributor cap. The cap only goes on properly one way. If this shows a different line-up, re-stab the distributor to align for the cap terminal mark and try again. Note the rotor will be closest to the terminal marked "1", but not perfectly aligned at TDC. It should be close enough to start and time.

You may want to pull and ground all the spark plugs, hook your timing light to #1, then spin the engine (no fuel) to set base timing before actual start attempt. If the MSD is confusing the light, you can also turn the crank slowly by hand (socket on crank bolt) and watch it fire all the flashes at one spot. ;) The TFI is one system that allows this.

There is a way to static-time to exactly 10° BTC, reading the distributor trigger directly, but the above should be close enough to get it going and set your base timing.

David
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Hi David,

Surprisingly, there is absolutaly no mark on the distributor cap...
I got this message from the guy who sold me the EFI at Steve Morris so I'll give a second try then...

Set the balancer at 30 degrees on the compression stroke.

Then rotate the distributor so that the rotor is in the middle of the #1 terminal on the cap.

Start the engine and check timing with the light, adjust as required.

The distributor may have a rubber band on one of the terminals, if that is the case then that terminal must be #1.

All that matters at the end of the day is that the laptop and damper show the same value. So all you need to do is get it close enough to start and then put a timing light on it to bring it into perfect alignment.

With a TFI system you should not have to touch any parameters in the EFI system, simply turn the distributor until timing lines up with the laptop and lock it into place.
 

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OK. I also checked against a stock cap, and it's the 4th terminal CC from the marker as shown below. If your EFI does not care which is #1, then you don't either. It's only to signal #1 for ECMs with timed sequential injection.

David

 

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Discussion Starter #18
To be on the safe side, we'll use cylinder 1 as indicated on your picture.
We can't do anything during the week so I'll have to wait this week-end...
 

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Discussion Starter #19
David,

Accordant to you, what I've been told make sense? There is no need to set the damper at 10deg but immediataly as explained?

Wat about the sensor, nothing to do?
 

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If you mean the Morris instruction, yes, they make sense to get it close enough to start the engine, and then set correct timing with a light. As I said in my instructions (using the sensor voltage change at 10°), the rotor will not exactly line-up with the #1 terminal, but the timing should be just about perfect before starting. Morris' method is just a different approach, to get timing only close enough to start the engine, then set it correctly with a light.

Pick either method and go with it. The engine will run without ECM timing control input, and the TFI will fire at whatever base timing you set - and stay there (no advance). This is known as 'limp home' mode, in-case of ECM timing control failure, such as a bad connector or broken wire. I stated 10°BTC because that is the typical setting used with TFI when there is no timing control from the ECM. If your ECM instructions say to use a different base timing, use that number instead. This is important, as the remaining ECM timing advance is added to that base timing. Does that make sense?

BTW - you can do initial startup with the ECM disconnected from the TFI, so that it is not giving confusing timing signals if the ECM settings are wrong somehow. The fuel injectors will still work. Once the engine is running stable on base timing, then connect the ECM signal to the TFI, and the timing should follow whatever is programmed.

David
 
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