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Discussion Starter #1
Hey All,
Because of logistics brought on by such things as weather, and other considerations, I'm going to start this new thread, not so much as a Ms. American specific discussion, but more as a "General Mechanical Knowledge" kind of thing.

This is NOT to turn the FM Forum into a discussion of another marque, but there are things that need knowing that are just general "automobile mechanics" in nature, and while we here at FM Forum ARE somewhat biased toward Ford in General, and Galaxies in particular, nuts and bolts are nuts and bolts, and how to deal with them spans the full spectrum of Makes and Models.

This morning, I continued the process of removing a Master Cylinder Assembly. And the part that connects the Push Rod that activates the Cylinder in the Master Cylinder Assembly to the Brake Pedal has a STRANGE kind of characteristic. It is a specially shaped BOLT, with a shoulder, and what appears to be a "special" thread. The NUT is also somewhat unusual as it has on the last two threads on the trailing end of the threads, little wide places in them that makes the NUT "VERY" hard to turn. Those little "wide places" are quite "regular", and look to be there "on purpose".

The BOLT "threads" into the Brake Pedal Lever until the shoulder part of the BOLT is left sticking out, as it is a "bearing surface" on which rides the Cylinder Push Rod. It threads through the Brake Pedal Lever until it is TIGHT, and then the NUT then goes onto the BOLT, and locks down against the Brake Pedal Lever. Once assembled, it ISN'T going to come apart incidentally.

What I am wondering is: Is this a design feature? Or are these threads "boogered" up?

It CAN be reassembled properly, but BOY, is it ever hard to tighten.

Anyway, this work was done this morning even though it was drizzling a bit. The working on TWO projects at once is a way of NOT wasting time due to the weather.

If JPGs of this unit would help answer the question, I can get the JPGs and post them quite easily.

JC
 

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Sounds like it is a purpose made lock nut. did this application use a lock type washer under the nut? If it only used a flat washer or no washer at all then it is definitely a purpose built locking nut and made that way.
There are several of these types on most vehicles.

Scott...
 

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first -- did ya kick a cat this morn. just for good measure??or at least frown at one?? whatever-

JC i remember them -if im remembering right their just a locking nut-- cant remember any strange flat spots -- would have to see it to know --
here kitty kitty--
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Sounds like it is a purpose made lock nut.
Hey Scott,
That's what I was hoping for.

did this application use a lock type washer under the nut?
No.

If it only used a flat washer or no washer at all then it is definitely a purpose built locking nut and made that way.
There was NO washer at all.

There are several of these types on most vehicles. Scott
This is the first time I've ever seen one.

Anyway, I cleaned the Bolt and Nut, and they are presently residing in the box with the Tail Light Switch and its Nut, the Bolts and Nuts that held various pieces together, and I'm now ready to remove the Push Rod, then two Nuts that hold the Bracket on which is mounted the Master Cylinder.

The weather is supposed to clear tomorrow, and more will be done.

Did I tell you that I've painted Lorrie's Engine Black with Gold Valve Cover, and Air Cleaner Assembly to match Ms. American's Engine?

I'm feeling really good about getting back to work on Lorrie. She and I have been together longer than have Ms. American and me. I just love them both. :)

JC
 

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Discussion Starter #5
first -- did ya kick a cat this morn. just for good measure??or at least frown at one?? whatever-
Hey Mr. DH,
Actually, I didn't. Two of them (Rocky and TraLaLa) were out in the Kitty Kastle last night but came in this morning for breakfast, and because it was raining out most of the day, they ALL got to stay in all day.

They are so well behaved that I seldom have to do anything other than snap my fingers at them to get them to cool whatever it is that I'm snapping my fingers about.

JC i remember them -if im remembering right their just a locking nut-- cant remember any strange flat spots -- would have to see it to know --
Well, I look at all this stuff through my ten-power, magnifying headset while I'm cleaning the stuff with the Craftsman RotoTool and Wire-Brush Wheel, and that's when I noticed the little flat spots on the Nut's last two wraps of threads.

Also, Lorrie Van Haul has Left-Handed Threads on one of her side's Lug Nuts (I don't remember which one right off the top of my head). It's a Mo-Par thing.

I'm just working away on Lorrie now. Wonder if the Holley Carburetor with the Micro-Tonsil in its throat is going to work? :) Won't know till the Brakes are finished, and all the wiring is figured out.

here kitty kitty--
That's what Matt Dillon used to say! :)

JC
 

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That's what Matt Dillon used to say--

cant say as i blame him -was always parcel to red heads--

a story about cats-- wifes cat squecker - got old and died -- she [my wife] was at work so i wrapped squeaker the cat in one of my wifes tshirts and buryed her out by the fence under the lilac bush-

pain in the azz cat always wanted to be petted -- -
 

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I know Ms. American has her own page, but does Lorrie Van Haul have one?
 

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Discussion Starter #8
cant say as i blame him -was always parcel to red heads--
Hey Mr. DH,
I dated a red head named Helen when I was in high school. But as I got older, I got partial to any color LONG hair as long as it was female.

a story about cats-- wifes cat squecker - got old and died -- she [my wife] was at work so i wrapped squeaker the cat in one of my wifes tshirts and buryed her out by the fence under the lilac bush-
My favorite cat of all time was a Black with White markings named Bonsai Bean. When she died in an April, I buried her beneath a Wild Rose Bush that had never bloomed. And ten days after I buried her, the Wild Rose Bush put out dozens of almost Black Roses, and has bloomed every year since. So I wrote this about BB after she died.

Bonsai Bean, my Bonsai Bean,
Prettiest cat I've ever seen.
Purest love I ever knew,
I'll always be in love with you.

And when she died,
I wrapped her in a Penny Saver,
Put her in a paper sack.
Beneath the Wild Rose I dug her grave.
Each April brings my Bonsai back.

pain in the azz cat always wanted to be petted -- -
They're LIKE that!

Anyway, for some reason I'm not sleepy, and I didn't have a nap today.

The weather has cleared, and there are stars out tonight. I'm going to be working on Lorrie tomorrow, AND I have to go pay my car insurance.

Hang in there.

JC
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Hey All,
Got the Adjustable Length Brake Push Rod out of the Master Cylinder, and cleaned it up.

Got the two Nuts off of the two Bolts that hold the Master Cylinder Bracket to the frame with the electric Impact Wrench, only to find that there are two more Bolts holding the Bracket in place and they can't be gotten out without removing the Body from the Frame. So now there are two Bolts holding the Master Cylinder to the Bracket that have to come out. They will be difficult, but it's not going to be impossible.

Have some GENERAL QUESTIONS:

If one puts a Test Light between the Positive Post of the Battery and the Post on the Starter Solenoid that goes to the Starter, should the light come on?

It does.

If the Negative Cable to the Battery is disconnected from the Negative Pole of the Battery while the Ignition Switch is off, and one connects the Test Light to the Negative Pole of the battery, and then touches the Negative Cable with the Probe, should the light come on?

It seems to me that it shouldn't. BUT it does!

I am certain that I have a closed circuit somewhere in Ms. American because sometimes (not always) if I leave the Battery's Negative Cable connected, the battery will go down in voltage while she is sitting. That's the reason that I have the Quick Disconnect Cable, and why I disconnect it between usages.

I disconnected the Holley Carburetor's Electric Choke Wires, and that didn't change anything.

I'm not clear on how to check the circuitry to find where the closed circuit is.

Maybe a tutorial is in order here.

JC
 

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question 1 --answer--no

question2 --answer no-

you got a short someplace--
 

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Discussion Starter #11
I know Ms. American has her own page, but does Lorrie Van Haul have one?
Hey Mr. D,
Yes! Click here:

1967 Dodge Mail Van

So today I got the Master Cylinder out of Lorrie.

Took the top off of it, and along with the top the formed rubber Cover Gasket. Took the Retainer off, but the Pistons are frozen in the Master Cylinder Body.

It is now soaking in AeroKroil.

If the Piston won't come out, the whole assembly is toast.

Am thinking that I might take the Master Cylinder Body to a Brake Shop and see if they can get the Piston to come out. I'm sure that this is NOT the first time for this to happen.

If they can't, or won't get it out, then will have to get a whole NEW Master Cylinder Assembly. $139.00 at NAPA and they have to order it.

I think I can find it at a better price elsewhere.

Will also need a new Boot that goes over the boss on the Retainer, and fits around the Shaft from the Brake Pedal to the Piston, if the old Body can be used. I would imagine that a new Boot would come with a NEW MCA.

Got all the pieces that came off cleaned, and they are now residing in a container.

Next comes the Wheel Cylinders.

JC
 

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start by un hooking things -one at a time - -- cab light- trunk light-- stop lights-
lighter---my guess-- its the alternator if it has one --or the volt regulator----
 

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Discussion Starter #13
start by un hooking things -one at a time
Hey Mr. DH,
What do you mean by "un hooking"? Do you mean pulling fuses? Or actually taking the connectors off of "cablight - trunk light - stop lights - lighter"?

my guess-- its the alternator if it has one
It DOES have an Alternator.

or the volt regulator
It DOES have a Voltage Regulator

And as I am "un hooking" things, I test with the Test Light between the Negative Post of the Battery and the Battery Cable connected to Ground?

Am I sure that I'm qualified to do this?

If I don't unhook the Quick Disconnect from the Negative Post of the Battery, it takes maybe three or four days to drain the battery. It must NOT be a very BIG short. AND sometimes it doesn't do it! That's the worst kind of thing because it isn't consistent.

Thanks for the response, the suggestions, and the tutorial.

JC
 

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Maybe a cell is shortcircuted in the battery? If you look down the cells, does it look like cotton on the plates? Then it's a no gooder. A fresh cell is clear and nice around the plates.
 

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easy enough to tell if its a shorted battery-- put one that you know is good in it and test for a short--
 

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Discussion Starter #17 (Edited)
Maybe a cell is shortcircuted in the battery? If you look down the cells, does it look like cotton on the plates? Then it's a no gooder. A fresh cell is clear and nice around the plates.
Hey Mr. K2R,
It has a Brand New Duralast Battery installed last Sunday morning.

The condition of it running down the Battery if the Battery is left hooked up is a LONG standing condition that I have just not addressed. Instead, I installed a quick disconnect Connector on the Negative Pole of the battery, and I just hook it up when Ms. American needs to go somewhere, and unhook it when we get home.

Thought at one time that it might be the Trunk Light not turning off, but there isn't any Trunk Light. Still, I had someone close the Trunk Lid with me in the trunk, and it was totally dark in there.

Thought that it might be that the Electric Choke was not connected to the Ignition Switch, but that isn't it because the condition still exists with both the wires taken off of the Electric Choke Cap.

AND another STRANGE thing: The Battery that was taken out showed 10 Volts on the Volt Meter on the Under-Dash Gauge Assembly. AND the NEW Battery does the same. So the Volt Meter under the Dash MIGHT not be registering what the REAL charge is on the battery. But, with the Engine running it registers 14 Volts right after start-up, and then settles to 12 to 13 after the Battery gets topped off after the Started has been used. And it reacts to the Turn Signals being on. AND when the Headlights are turned on, it shows a discharge, which then goes back to normal when the Voltage Regulator does its thing. Also, when the Speedometer get to 28 MPH, the Over Drive solenoid kicks, and the Volts go to ZERO, and instantly back to what they were at 27 MPH. BTW, that is normal.

Just got back from checking both Batteries with a Multi Tester, and both showed 12+ Volts.

I've always been of the opinion that it's a bare wire touching something that is grounded, because it doesn't do it all the time. :(

Anyway, thanks for the response, and the heads-up. Any other idea is welcome.

JC
 

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easy enough to tell if its a shorted battery-- put one that you know is good in it and test for a short--
Hey Mr. DH,
Like I told Mr. K2R, it's NOT a problem with the Battery. I may take it to a place in Livingston that specializes in Auto Electrics.

But right now, I'm concerned about another problem: How to get the Piston out of the Master Brake Cylinder Body. It's STUCK in the bore, and there's nothing onto which to grab with which to pull it out.

I've had a couple of ideas. Let me run them past you (and everyone) to see what you think:

The first one was to: Take a piece of hardwood dowel slightly smaller than the diameter of, and shorter than the depth of the hole into which the Brake Push Rod fits. Screw a long Wood Screw into it. Then EPOXY the dowel into the hole into which the Brake Push Rod fits. When it is cured, pull the Piston out using the long Wood Screw as a handle. Then remove the Wood Screw, and drill the Dowel out with the proper sized Drill Bit, finishing it off with the Craftsman RotoTool and a Burr Bit.

The second one was to: Epoxy a NUT into the bottom of the hole into which the Brake Push Rod fits being careful not to get any epoxy on the threads of the Nut. When the epoxy is cured, thread a long Bolt into the Nut, and pull the Piston out using the Bolt as a handle. The Nut could be left in the hole and the Brake Push Rod adjusted to accept the lessened hole depth.

And NOW, a QUESTION: Would it hurt anything to soak the Master Cylinder Body in Berryman Carburetor Dip? All the rubber parts are going to be replaced anyway

As was mentioned earlier in this thread, I made the mistake of using Silicone Brake Fluid when I rebuilt the Brakes back in 1986. And there is a "sludge" in the Master Brake Cylinder Body that Berryman Carburetor Dip would most likely remove.

Whaddaya think?

JC
 

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Put a grease gun (if you have one) and a airbleed nipple on the pressure outbond and pump out the piston. Plug the inlet. voila

Hey, i'm doing more than 200 posts. I'll celebrate that with a glass of good rhum.
 

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well hell im a brilant sorta feller--

hey JC smack the piston a few times --put a piece of wood between the piston and the hammer jar it loose soaking wont hurt a thing your going to rebuild it anyway----
ya know --i like the grease gun idea-- it will give you a steady and higher pressure--
 
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