[Doberman]

Howdy everyone! First post on the forums, and i think it will be a doosey.

I recently purchased a 351c ( block code D2AE-CA). Im in the planning stages. But i do know im going to keep the bottom end stock. Larger bore if i have to but havent even taken the heads off yet. Obviously a larger cam than stock but not real aggresive. with a stock set up i most likely wont have valve trouble, however im going to change valves so there is never an issue.( better safe than sorry. My question is concerning efiing a 351c.

92-95 f150's (5.8's) with sequential injection I believe should be near bolt on. Same firing order, "near" the same displacement. Not being a fuel injection master I cannot forsee any problems in the form of the engine being able to run good enough to have someone tweak the fuel a bit. Is there any problems i dont know about?

The 2 biggest things i can forsee is the plugging into a 351c distibutor for electronic control, and the effort to putting in bungs for injectors.

Not being an efi person and a newbie cleveland owner, I am sure there is more to this story. 2c appreciated, and keep in mind im blonde. sometimes it need brow beaten into my brain

 

[Mroldfart2U]

Howdy everyone! First post on the forums, and i think it will be a doosey.

I recently purchased a 351c ( block code D2AE-CA). Im in the planning stages. But i do know im going to keep the bottom end stock. Larger bore if i have to but havent even taken the heads off yet. Obviously a larger cam than stock but not real aggresive. with a stock set up i most likely wont have valve trouble, however im going to change valves so there is never an issue.( better safe than sorry. My question is concerning efiing a 351c.

92-95 f150's (5.8's) with sequential injection I believe should be near bolt on. Same firing order, "near" the same displacement. Not being a fuel injection master I cannot forsee any problems in the form of the engine being able to run good enough to have someone tweak the fuel a bit. Is there any problems i dont know about?

The 2 biggest things i can forsee is the plugging into a 351c distibutor for electronic control, and the effort to putting in bungs for injectors.

Not being an efi person and a newbie cleveland owner, I am sure there is more to this story. 2c appreciated, and keep in mind im blonde. sometimes it need brow beaten into my brain

We'll stop you quick,the 5.8l is a windsor based motor so nothing from the top end will fit. Unless you change to windsor style heads, which is another deal to do.... Not saying its NOT possible but It would be cheaper to use an aftermarket EFI than to use the factory (junk yard take off) units.... Lots of work.....

Welcome to the forum now that I have blown up your plans...

 

[Doberman]

Nawwww, you havent blown up my plans. I just dont think i was clear enough

The work involved is not the issue. Yes i realize intakes are different. The intake is not a component i would use. Im concerened with the efi system itself. I can bung my stock intake or aftermarket. I can weld in o2 bungs. Its the computer side of it i dont know.

For me it wont be cheaper. A friend of mine is in the salvage buiness. We can find a donor i need and split the cost. So i could get a full f-150 set up on the cheap.

I would get new injectors/o2 sensors obviously, but as best i can figure i could use the ecu, harness, trottlebody, fuel pump, etc. Intake is another story but none the less im looking for any difficulties on the ecu side of things.

 

[Mroldfart2U]

Ok maybe someone thats versed in EFI will jump in soon.....

 

[KULTULZ]

There is an EXCELLENT TECH ARTICLE here somewhere in the archives that will give you guidance regarding a simple and clean conversion (TBI). It is based on EEC-IV which will simplify things immensely.

EDIT- :frown:

Brain Fart...

Correct terminology is direct injection (port) with a throttle body, using a 4V carburetor intake. TBI (CFI) is describing the injectors being within the TB.

I am alright now. End of corrective transmission.


If you need a TFI distributor, look for a late 7.5L Light Truck engine. It will offer a closed bowl dist with a remote mount IGN MODULE.

 

[Doberman]

I would be interested in reading that article, IF i can find it . I have been digging on the forums pretty good. Im under the assumtion an injection system doesnt really care what it feeds just so long as it has the right firing order to not throw the O2 sensor off. As well as close to the same cubic inches for fuel usage.

TBI is ok but if your going to spray right below the venturi's, you might as well run a 4 barrel. I am much more interested in doing a multipoint set up. With the massive runners on the Cleveland heads, just seems a waste to leave fuel lingering in the intake.

Aftermarket TBI kits are not horribly priced for what they are. However the multipoint set ups are just crazy priced.

 

[KULTULZ]

I would be interested in reading that article, IF i can find it . I have been digging on the forums pretty good. Im under the assumtion an injection system doesnt really care what it feeds just so long as it has the right firing order to not throw the O2 sensor off. As well as close to the same cubic inches for fuel usage.

TBI is ok but if your going to spray right below the venturi's, you might as well run a 4 barrel. I am much more interested in doing a multipoint set up. With the massive runners on the Cleveland heads, just seems a waste to leave fuel lingering in the intake.

Aftermarket TBI kits are not horribly priced for what they are. However the multipoint set ups are just crazy priced.

No, this will be multi-point injection, dry intake. The alum 4V intake should have castings to modify for injector bungs.

It is also MAF (hidden) It will appear as carbureted except for the fuel rails. It is powered off an SEFI EEC-IV ECM.

Let me see if I can find it.

 

[KULTULZ]

Here 'ya go- Tech Archive - Fuel Injection - FordMuscle

 

[fastEd]

If you aren't going to be using any of the manifold parts but want to start with an OEM computer and harness, you would be further ahead to go with an 89-93 5.0 Mustang system, as there is much more aftermarket support for that system. Can be easily tuned for larger engines, MAF sensor and injector upgrades, etc.


cheers
Ed

 

[Mroldfart2U]

If you aren't going to be using any of the manifold parts but want to start with an OEM computer and harness, you would be further ahead to go with an 89-93 5.0 Mustang system, as there is much more aftermarket support for that system. Can be easily tuned for larger engines, MAF sensor and injector upgrades, etc.


cheers
Ed

Cant go that route, He's building a Cleveland....

 

[PSIG]

My short-version reply is YES, you could use the EEC and most of the parts (and a modified C intake) to throw EFI on your 351C, and yes, it will need tuning (no, MAF is not a wonder device), so expect to either pay for software or pay a pro to do it.

No, I would not go that route myself, and would prefer with the large number of changes to use the same parts (or anything else you prefer) and an aftermarket controller, such as MegaSquirt. The cost between EEC tuning hardware/software and an MS ECM is very similar ($200-$500), and the MS is much (much) easier to tune yourself with cheap or free software. I would equip either version with a wide-band O2 sensor and controller (~$150 and up) for best results and ease of tuning. You would also have other options this way, such as using your working stock 351C ignition and MS fuel only (nice to start simple), or to the other end of the pool with distributorless ignition, sequential everything, E-transmission control, racing functions, and all kinds of advanced power and mileage capability.

Yes, you will need to know the basic theories of engine tuning for either (or for a carb) to tune yourself.

David

 

[Hottarod]

Trick Flow makes a fuel injected lower and upper manifold for the 351C.

Here tis;

 

[KULTULZ]

Trick Flow makes a fuel injected lower and upper manifold for the 351C.

Here tis;

...hmmpf...

I did not know that....

 

[Doberman]

Just wanted to give an update for anyone who is into Clevelands.

I bought the motor last friday and pick it up on tuesday. We did complete disassembly wednesday, and we just got back from dropping most of the engine at the machine shop for its bath and dialing. Tearing it down, there was hardly any ridge in the cylinders and NO rust. It wasnt till we got to the bottom end we finally saw some copper colored main and rod bearings. Thank god we tore it down, they would not have lasted. And the stock cam was pitted more than ive ever seen on a cam. We tore the heads down for some new hardened seats verus reusing the old annealed seats that really wouldnt last. Yes the valves are going to be single grove keepers. The machinist was very optimistic about this block( as we were). The dials and flux will tell the tale, but im fairly confident I spent 200 bucks very well.

 

[Doberman]

Picked up a A9L ecu, 75mm maf meter, and maf wiring conversion harness. Not sure how the conversion harness comes into play here for getting the injector harness. I would assume if i got the complete kit from ford( motorsport) the engine harness would already have wiring for the maf sensor. 2 cents appreciated here.

 

[5.0 Chero]

Yes the Ford harness is set up for MASS AIR as is the Painless kit.

 

[Doberman]

Ok so the pistons are taking FOREVER!! to get here. Just wondering how much over stock you guys think this rebuild will be doing. 30 over pistons (+2 cc flycuts) with EDEL #2172 cam.

Cam:
Basic Operating RPM Range:Idle-5,500

Intake Duration at 050 inch Lift:204

Exhaust Duration at 050 inch Lift:214

Duration at 050 inch Lift:204 int./214 exh.

Advertised Intake Duration:282

Advertised Exhaust Duration:292

Advertised Duration:282 int./292 exh.

Intake Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio:0.484 in.

Exhaust Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio:0.510 in.

Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio:0.484 int./0.510 exh.

Lobe Separation (degrees):112

The cam sucks a little more wind than the rv cams. I am going for cruising and milage here, but a little something in the passing lane will be nice for when i get behind the 80 plus crowd who actually drives slower than i do.

stock 2v heads decked .010 and stock exhaust at first. With the 2cc flycuts and decked heads, i should comfortably be in the front to middle end of the 9:1 ratio.
if anyone has a more educated guess than what i can come up with, I am all ears. Hp/Tq will help me select a more fitting( cheaper) 5 speed. The iffy part is the torque curve. And taking it to an engine dyno will be pricey and in the end not save any money. Oh and i have been called "granpa" on many occasions based on the way i drive. Or people remind me what the pedal on the far right is for. Yes im one of those people you swear at on the state highways.