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Discussion Starter #1
Hi all,
I'm curious if anyone has used the trick-flow 225 R-Series head from Total Engine Airflow (they flow 356 CFM @700 lift intake - 282 @ 700 ex) running Victory 1 Ti intake valve 2.08, Ferrea Stainless steel ex valve 1.6. ?? I currently have a set going on a 430W 13:1 CR and port matched Super Victor Holley 950 XP E-85. Dart Iron Eagle block Lunati Signature series crank, Oliver billet I-beam rods (Speedway series), Diamond pistons, 55mm roller cam journal custom cam specs (744/742 lift - [email protected] 282/296 114 lobe sep) from LSM. .904 Isky EZ Roll Max bushed lifter, T&D Shaft mount rockers. Will spray a 250 wet shot of NOS on top. Hoping for 750 on motor and close to 1K on the juice.

Going into a 68 Falcon with a TKO 600 5 spd, McLeod RXT twin disc clutch, currie 9" 3.70 final drive, looking to upgrade to a t-56 Magnum. Application will be street/strip driven and before I hear the "that's way to much for the street" comments. I just want to know who is driving something similar on the street and how are the manners? Also, if you are running at the track, what are your ET's...?? Anyone running a manual transmission with this motor??

Cheers
 

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Discussion Starter #2
Anyone?!
 

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I have ran a NA street/strip 434 with 11.2 compression, better flowing raised port Edelbrock inline 7721 heads, Ported Super Vic intake, 1000cfm Braswell carb, Bullet 270/278 duration 777/770 lift SR cam with just over 700HP on the street with a 4 speed transmission and 4.56 gears on local convenience store Sunoco 93 octane fuel. It also has T&D aluminum shaft rockers, Isky EZ max roller lifters, 3/8" .135 thick wall pushrods, and 1 7/8" tube headers with 3.5" collectors/3.5" pipes through 3.5" race bullets. Race clutch is Hyatt Sinterned Iron adjustable. Has been a best of 9.66/140 with 9.90's/136 in the heat of summer. At the track its shifted at 7500 and goes out the back door at up to 8300rpm's

Being a manual it drives well on the street, although low speed manuevers requires a 2k+ rpm to run smoothly. I have a set of 3" straight through turbo type mufflers and 2 1/2" tailpipes to the rear bumper for street duty. I have had zero issues with the Isky ez max but finally sent them back for a rebuild after 5 years of racing. I have not had as good success with the T&D rockers. I've had bearings go out and last summer an aluminum rocker broke at the spring oiling hole. Cost of repairs at T&D isn't bad BUT if you catch them at the wrong time of year (early spring) it can take 2 months to get them back. They will sell you parts over the phone so that can help.

Your clutch choice won't be the best for racing and chances are it will blow the tires off at launch or you'll have to low rpm feather the clutch until you can get into the next gear. I do have a friend who coupled a twin disc with a "clutch tamer" with decent success behind a 750hp BBF. It allows some slippage at launch and during shifts. The coyote stock guys use then with decent success as they are not allowed to use a true racing clutch.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
I have ran a NA street/strip 434 with 11.2 compression, better flowing raised port Edelbrock inline 7721 heads, Ported Super Vic intake, 1000cfm Braswell carb, Bullet 278/280 duration 770/780 lift SR cam with just over 700HP on the street with a 4 speed transmission and 4.56 gears on local convenience store Sunoco 93 octane fuel. It also has T&D aluminum shaft rockers, Isky EZ max roller lifters, 3/8" .135 thick wall pushrods, and 1 7/8" tube headers with 3.5" collectors/3.5" pipes through 3.5" race bullets. Race clutch is Hyatt Sinterned Iron adjustable. Has been a best of 9.66/140 with 9.90's/136 in the heat of summer. At the track its shifted at 7500 and goes out the back door at up to 8300rpm's

Being a manual it drives well on the street, although low speed manuevers requires a 2k+ rpm to run smoothly. I have a set of 3" straight through turbo type mufflers and 2 1/2" tailpipes to the rear bumper for street duty. I have had zero issues with the Isky ez max but finally sent them back for a rebuild after 5 years of racing. I have not had as good success with the T&D rockers. I've had bearings go out and last summer an aluminum rocker broke at the spring oiling hole. Cost of repairs at T&D isn't bad BUT if you catch them at the wrong time of year (early spring) it can take 2 months to get them back. They will sell you parts over the phone so that can help.

Your clutch choice won't be the best for racing and chances are it will blow the tires off at launch or you'll have to low rpm feather the clutch until you can get into the next gear. I do have a friend who coupled a twin disc with a "clutch tamer" with decent success behind a 750hp BBF. It allows some slippage at launch and during shifts. The coyote stock guys use then with decent success as they are not allowed to use a true racing clutch.
Dennis112 that's a mean setup,

7721 heads are some breathers for sure. Whats the flow numbers on them? I was curious about low speed maneuvering and I can live with keeping the RPM's up while moving around parking lots since it's not a daily. Sounds like your valve train has held up well with the exception of the rockers. What block are you using?? As far as clutch the McLeod RXT is an on/off switch and I'm assuming that's the reason it will blow the tires off? I'm also considering a transmission swap to a T-56 Magnum as I'm not sure how the TKO 600 will hold to 7500+ RPM's while going down the track. Any advice or experience on the TKO 600 vs T-56 Magnum?

The car has Chris Alston chassis works builder tubs (hybrid between mini and full tub) and I'm running an 18x12 on a Toyo R888R 335/30R18 out back with 2" inbd of more room. That setup holds my current Victor jr. head and intake 408W (472/527 rw hp/tq) with barely tire chirp in 1st and 2nd gear WOT pulls. I have plenty of room for tire sizing options since being tubbed so I'll see how current combo does but have plans for a 15x10 or 17x12 weld wheel on a bias ply tire to help absorb tire shock of a manual car.
 

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Dennis112 that's a mean setup,

7721 heads are some breathers for sure. Whats the flow numbers on them? I was curious about low speed maneuvering and I can live with keeping the RPM's up while moving around parking lots since it's not a daily. Sounds like your valve train has held up well with the exception of the rockers. What block are you using?? As far as clutch the McLeod RXT is an on/off switch and I'm assuming that's the reason it will blow the tires off? I'm also considering a transmission swap to a T-56 Magnum as I'm not sure how the TKO 600 will hold to 7500+ RPM's while going down the track. Any advice or experience on the TKO 600 vs T-56 Magnum?

I have plenty of room for tire sizing options since being tubbed so I'll see how current combo does but have plans for a 15x10 or 17x12 weld wheel on a bias ply tire to help absorb tire shock of a manual car.
Duane Busch built and ported my heads "mild" for my intended strip/street use. The heads are far from being maxed out and my goal was a motor that would push my 3550 race weight for 10.00 runs in the heat of the summer and yet slightly dip a little lower in good weather. I limited myself to a roll bar so I can't legally run any faster than 10 flat. It had to be streetable too, which is easy with a manual transmission and 4.56 gearing. Currently the heads have 2.150/1.625 valves for 381/271 cfm @ .700 lift. Duane had input for every part of my motor build and did the porting on the Super Vic too. I have a G101A 4 speed that is capable of holding 1000+HP and is shifted without using the clutch on the strip. I double clutch it on the street. My real go to transmission for street us is a big block toploader which is synchronized and they are rated at 600HP which works fine on the street since the tires break loose easily with street tires.

Unless you have it reworked for racing the TKO 600 will be notchy during shifts and won't like being shifted at 7500. I also think they are rated for around 600HP and if so, it won't won't last long with such a stout motor combination and a street clutch. Good for the street though with street tires. I have no input on the T56 but would think it would work similarly on the street. The 3:70 gear is probably not the best choice for street/strip driving your motor combination as it won't keep the rpm up during casual shifts nor will it help the car launch at the track (especially with the street clutch.)

For the strip you will definitely need a bias slick in order to have any traction (which will be detrimental to your street clutch.) Mine is mini-tubbed and I use a 28x10.5x15S stiff wall bias slick which is the max size that can be mounted in my wheel well. I can't give you a street tire recommendation as I have yet to find a good traction tire that doesn't instantly blow the tires off in 1st, 2nd or 3rd gears with even moderately aggressive throttle applications. Fourth gear will hold but the tires will break loose when the motor gets into its power band of 6K plus. It really has too much stuff for the street but sticks well at the track with the Caltracs and slicks.

Here is a video of a 9.82/138+ mph 1/4 mile run:

 

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I guess I should address the heart of your question--is your build going to be too much for the street?

IMHO--Yes, in general, it will be. With the spec's you are giving, you are building a race engine. It won't be overly friendly on the street as a NA build. You will need to make some personal concessions for driveability. Basically it all depends on the driver's endurance level as practically anything could be street driven but with some limitations.

With what you have spec'ed you will have to keep the rev's up for it to lug around in town. The 3:70 gear will not be enough gear to make that motor happy at low road speeds. Perhaps a super low 1st gear would help? You may need to remain in a lower transmission gear than you want to be in. Starting from a dead stop will require more throttle than a lesser powered car just to get it moving. You will also have to rev it higher that a less powered car in order to get a smooth decent clutch shift. Since you are looking at OD type transmissions you should consider using a lower rear gear. I'd say 4.11 or 4.30 (or steeper) for street use (which would also work well at the track.) At 55mph my car with 27" tall tires and a 4.33 gear is rev'ing near 3200 rpm's. Its comfortable because its in my tolerance range and driving local (plus its my preferred track gear.)

I live in a rural mountainous area and there are no roads that are marked faster than 55mph. Rarely will I travel those roads continuously more than 20 miles or so at that speed. I prefer to cruise back roads that allow me to use different parts of the rpm band (with an occasional blast for speed.)

There is a more modern alternative that would give a better overall driving experience. If you built your 750hp basic goal using a turbo to get that figure, you would have something that would work much better on the street as the motor can be built milder and the real power comes when the throttle is opened enough for the turbo to kick in.

Driveability is a subjective thing.
 

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This is an interesting thread.
Diamondback: Eager. Wants to go FAST, and have the most BAD ASS car on the road.
Dennis: Experienced... and has one of the most bad ass actual classic street cars.

Diamondback... An engine like you are proposing is a complex, high maintenance piece. There are a LOT of tiny details in the assembly process that require an expert's experience, knowledge and attention to even SEE, let alone address. It's the type of build that is for an extremely experienced, talented builder.

This being said, even if everything is 'right' upon assembly, it will be a HIGH MAINTENANCE piece. Engines like that are not generally a 'turn key' and go sort of beast. They require a top notch valvetrain that is set up correctly, or there WILL be issues. The valvetrain is a maintenance item. The service life will be a fraction of a 6500 rpm engine. Pulling and refreshing will be a normal occurrence.

Just be aware of what you are signing up for. It is NOT like getting in a 6500 rpm hydraulic roller, pump gas hotrod. You'll spend a lot more time working on it than driving it.

This being said, a buddy of mine recently bought a used Hellcat. Drove it three hours to the track this past weekend, ran a 10.98, and drove it home... getting 23.6 mpg in the process. Pretty cool daily driver! lol
 

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Discussion Starter #8
This is an interesting thread.
Diamondback: Eager. Wants to go FAST, and have the most BAD ASS car on the road.
Dennis: Experienced... and has one of the most bad ass actual classic street cars.

Diamondback... An engine like you are proposing is a complex, high maintenance piece. There are a LOT of tiny details in the assembly process that require an expert's experience, knowledge and attention to even SEE, let alone address. It's the type of build that is for an extremely experienced, talented builder.

This being said, even if everything is 'right' upon assembly, it will be a HIGH MAINTENANCE piece. Engines like that are not generally a 'turn key' and go sort of beast. They require a top notch valvetrain that is set up correctly, or there WILL be issues. The valvetrain is a maintenance item. The service life will be a fraction of a 6500 rpm engine. Pulling and refreshing will be a normal occurrence.

Just be aware of what you are signing up for. It is NOT like getting in a 6500 rpm hydraulic roller, pump gas hotrod. You'll spend a lot more time working on it than driving it.

This being said, a buddy of mine recently bought a used Hellcat. Drove it three hours to the track this past weekend, ran a 10.98, and drove it home... getting 23.6 mpg in the process. Pretty cool daily driver! lol
n2omike,

Thanks for the analogy. I accept the valve train maintenance responsibility as part of this build. I made the decision to do this build instead of going with boost because I have a talented engine builder that lives near me (he builds Chris Alston Jr's race engines). I have learned a lot about engines with this temperament and looking forward to getting after it. I do not plan on driving it distances of more that 20 miles or so at a time. Mostly to the track and back roads where I live is where it will see its duty. I can't wait to romp on this thing. I will post videos of the engine dyno and in car once complete and maybe I can do a video on my experience with it on the street and strip.

That's what so good about modern engines. All that performance and drivability in one package. Hellcats are impressive cars.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I guess I should address the heart of your question--is your build going to be too much for the street?

IMHO--Yes, in general, it will be. With the spec's you are giving, you are building a race engine. It won't be overly friendly on the street as a NA build. You will need to make some personal concessions for driveability. Basically it all depends on the driver's endurance level as practically anything could be street driven but with some limitations.

With what you have spec'ed you will have to keep the rev's up for it to lug around in town. The 3:70 gear will not be enough gear to make that motor happy at low road speeds. Perhaps a super low 1st gear would help? You may need to remain in a lower transmission gear than you want to be in. Starting from a dead stop will require more throttle than a lesser powered car just to get it moving. You will also have to rev it higher that a less powered car in order to get a smooth decent clutch shift. Since you are looking at OD type transmissions you should consider using a lower rear gear. I'd say 4.11 or 4.30 (or steeper) for street use (which would also work well at the track.) At 55mph my car with 27" tall tires and a 4.33 gear is rev'ing near 3200 rpm's. Its comfortable because its in my tolerance range and driving local (plus its my preferred track gear.)

I live in a rural mountainous area and there are no roads that are marked faster than 55mph. Rarely will I travel those roads continuously more than 20 miles or so at that speed. I prefer to cruise back roads that allow me to use different parts of the rpm band (with an occasional blast for speed.)

There is a more modern alternative that would give a better overall driving experience. If you built your 750hp basic goal using a turbo to get that figure, you would have something that would work much better on the street as the motor can be built milder and the real power comes when the throttle is opened enough for the turbo to kick in.

Driveability is a subjective thing.
Dennis112,
That video of your car ripping and pulling the front wheels is awesome! Man you have that thing DIALED IN. Is it a face plated gear box?

To your point with what a driver can tolerate on the street. I think while I'm young its better to give this a try and see how I like it. I'm pretty sure I will enjoy it and I'd say my tolerance is high with a rowdy motor. I used to think my Hyd roller 6,500 rpm 408w was rowdy but that was my perspective 7 years ago. I guess I will learn from experience. I will definitely be ready for the ring and pinion swap to a steeper gear if its too much of a dog in the lower gears/RPM. It seems like you have the around town and cruising part figured out on your combo. Thanks for sharing your experience.
 

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Yes it is faceplated (and with the gas pedal massed to the floor when going down the track.) The transmission is a Geforce G101A 4 speed rated at over 1000hp. When not going down the track it is shifted with the clutch with a "double clutch" with rev match, similar to what the semi drivers do. I do run it on the street (their noisy with straight cut gears for strength.)

My "long term" street transmission is a stock internal BBF toploader rated at 600hp. It won't hold up an evening if ran at the track with slicks. Been there, had the pile of broken parts to prove it . . . .
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Yes it is faceplated (and with the gas pedal massed to the floor when going down the track.) The transmission is a Geforce G101A 4 speed rated at over 1000hp. When not going down the track it is shifted with the clutch with a "double clutch" with rev match, similar to what the semi drivers do. I do run it on the street (their noisy with straight cut gears for strength.)

My "long term" street transmission is a stock internal BBF toploader rated at 600hp. It won't hold up an evening if ran at the track with slicks. Been there, had the pile of broken parts to prove it . . . .
Dennis112,

It would be cool if you had the time to do a youtube review of your car with the specs of the motor and trans combo. A build like that isn't something you see all the time.
 

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Dennis112,

It would be cool if you had the time to do a youtube review of your car with the specs of the motor and trans combo. A build like that isn't something you see all the time.
He did detailed documentation on here with every significant upgrade he did to the car. This site is LOADED with tons of great tech by Dennis. He is one of its best contributors. Only thing, is the pictures no longer show up. I think the vast majority were posted using Photobucket... back when it was free... and I don't think he ever subscribed to their service to keep them up. But, it's amazing content. Photos help immensely, but there's still content that can be read through.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
He did detailed documentation on here with every significant upgrade he did to the car. This site is LOADED with tons of great tech by Dennis. He is one of its best contributors. Only thing, is the pictures no longer show up. I think the vast majority were posted using Photobucket... back when it was free... and I don't think he ever subscribed to their service to keep them up. But, it's amazing content. Photos help immensely, but there's still content that can be read through.
n20mike,

I remember Dennis being on here since I was a youngster and joined this site. Him and FEandgoingbroke.. is he still around too? Are some of the names I remember as being some of the most experienced and helpful guys providing tech and content on this forum. I believe I remember your name on here as well from 10 years ago. Thanks to everyone who shares their experience and give sound advice.
 
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