Ford Muscle Cars Tech Forum banner

1 - 14 of 14 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
21 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Question, on a scale from 1 to 10, how difficult is a trans rebuild? (from those who have tackled this for the first time)Any problems you ran into and fixes. Where did you find information for a rebuild (I did review the info on this site and from it very helpful) How difficult was it to remove the trans from the car? (without a lift). Thanks for any help you can give me.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
2,833 Posts
Which trans, auto or manual? They're both heavy and can be difficult if they want to. Getting either out isn't that hard. Putting them back is another story. Remember, when the trans crossmember on either one is the rear motor mount. So when it comes down so will the engine tilt down and the trans fall down at a steep angle. trans fluid, unless drained will run out the back of the trans. The whole thing is best and safest way done with a strong friend. As far as rebuilting either one, with the proper tools and a book, not bad. Just take it slow and easy and don't force anything.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
21 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Reporting back on this automatic trans rebuild. The hardest thing was getting the trans out from under the car without lifting the car too high. I found out why the trans was puking fluid, the bellhousing bolts were loose, correction, had not been tightened up and torqued after cleanup, (son).The rebuild was or seemed easy. Just break it down piece by piece, clean everything, replace all of the seals and rings, etc. I then bought a shift improver kit for that added kick and well what do you know, it was someones returned crap that was missing half of the parts. I think those jerks should be shot!, Anyway, returned it and got another. All was well going back together, and I thought about what the "Haynes transmission rebuild manual" said. If you went to all that trouble why put that dirty torque converter on, so I bought a reman. reinstalled everything. I drove the car slowly through the neighborhood and all seemed well. Then I ventured out on the highway. When I returned the trans was burping fluid out a pint at a time. What gives! This is exactly why I tore into it in the first place. Also the trans didn't shift into third but I didn't drive over 50 mph. Did this hurt the seals? or too much pressure? After reading some info, I decided to remove the valve body replace the shift kit with the original parts. At this time I noticed that everything was filthy with trash and very fine metallic particles. I guess the reman torque wasn't remanufactured after all. Anyway, back together and it still is leaking from the bellhousing access cover. Also the Haynes manual shows a large rubber ring that goes between the bellhousing the the pump. My trans didn't have the ring so I didn't put on in. could this be the problem? Anybody have any clues as to what is leaking as this is a pain taking it out.
Sorry for bending your ear but I need an answer. Thanks.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
2,833 Posts
There is a gasket that goes at the tailshaft to seal it, normally but years are different. Sounds like the convertor and garbage in it and that is in the trans system. Probably why it didn't shift. Might have t take it apart and clean it out. Not the first time I've seen it happen.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
34,855 Posts
The front pump has a BIG "O" ring and a paper Gasket..... It could be pissing it out there....

Disassemble it again and clean every hole, tube and line with carb cleaner and air pressure then drain and re-fill the convertor then re-assemble everything, make sure not to forget the paper gasket and the rubber seal.......



FE
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
21 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Well I was afraid someone would say that. I was hopeing someone would tell me to throw some magic fixit dust on it and "poof" it would be done. This trans did not have the big o'ring although it does have the space for it. But the fluid is not coming from between the case and bellhousing, it's coming out of the bottom of the bellhousing where the access plate is from inside. The way I see it is it's either the torque converter, (unlikely), the seal, or the pump has cracked. I just cannot see how the fluid could get inside the bellhousing without running out between the case and bellhousing first, does that make since?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,003 Posts
The O-ring around the front pump is only on some models - not all of them. The front seal (all the external seals) need to be lubed with vaseline or tranny assembly lube when installed. You can burn up a converter seal in less than five minutes if it is installed dry.
When you get it out be sure to pull the front pump and check to see if there is a "flange" for the O-ring; if there is then use one. If not then don't worry about it. While you have the front pump out take it apart and check the gears and housing. There should be some indication of wear but no scratches or wear that you can feel. If there is any excessive wear replace it - you can get a used one at any transmission shop for a lot less than a new one will cost. Be sure to install the gears in the pump the right way or you will have a hard time getting the converter in and it will sing to you as you drive. If you do get one at a tranny shop have them pull it apart so you can be sure it is good.
Install with new gaskets and seals.
Puking trannys do it for a reason - air and tranny fluid make foam and that will cause puking - over full trannys do the same thing. Over heating trannys will sometimes puke but usually they just burn up and quit at the worst time and in a place you would rather not be at the best of times. When installing a tranny you should flush the cooler - in both directions to make sure it is clean, flush the converter or get a new one (notice I didn't say rebuilt?) have the car jacked up (or don't put it on the ground before you start it) while doing the pre-start checks and then add 4 quarts of type F fluid before you start the engine.
Here is some free info :

Transmission Installation Checklist for C4 transmissions

Jack the vehicle off the ground, level and high enough to install the transmission and leave the vehicle elevated until the transmission has been filled and run in the air to assure that all ranges work without a load and all adjustments have been made.
Flush cooler lines and radiator cooler. Install after market cooler with 12000 lb towing capacity in front of radiator.
Install bell housing using factory fasteners or grade 8 bolts with washers. Be sure to torque to specifications after placing a few drops of BLUE Loc-Tite ® on the threads.
Fill new or flushed torque converter with 2 quarts of ATF. Lubricate converter snout and pump seal with ATF or Vaseline®. Install new or flushed torque converter onto transmission and seat fully. Record the seated depth in your maintenance manual.
Install transmission. Torque six mounting bolts. Pull the torque converter forward to the flex-plate and install bolts or nuts using blue Loc-Tite®. Torque all bolts to factory specifications.
Install flushed or new cooler lines. Run oil from transmission into the radiator cooler (bottom if vertical) and then into the auxiliary cooler bottom line with the top line returning to the transmission.
NOTE: never use fuel hose to connect the transmission cooler lines, as it will burst. Use only Push-Loc® hose or equivalent 250 PSI working pressure oil compatible hose and screw type clamps. Secure the rear transmission mount using blue Loc-Tite® on the fasteners and torque to factory specifications.
Lubricate the driveline slip yoke with ATF or Vaseline®.
Install drive line and secure bolts with blue Loc-Tite® at factory torque value. See "Transmission Adjustments" sheet and make downshift and shift linkage adjustments as required.
Add four quarts of ATF to the transmission before starting the engine. Start the engine and with the transmission in "Park", add ATF until it reaches the "Add" mark. Get in the car and with the park brake set and your foot firmly on the brake pedal run the transmission from "Park" to reverse, neutral, "Drive", "2" and "1" allowing time for the transmission to engage in each position. Run the transmission through each gear again as you move the selector back to "Park". Make sure the wheels have stopped before placing the transmission in park. Check the oil level again and add to half way between the "Add" and "Full" marks on the dipstick. Do NOT overfill the transmission because it will lead to foaming and loss of fluid through the breather tube. While the vehicle is on stands or blocks run it in drive allowing it to shift (unless it is manual shift) automatically and then put it through each gear manually; (Low, Intermediate, Drive until it is in third gear, move the lever to neutral, press on the brake to stop the wheels from turning, Reverse, press on the brakes to stop the wheels and then shift back to park. Check the oil level again and fill to half way between the "Add" and "Full" marks on the dipstick. Do NOT overfill the transmission because it will lead to foaming and loss of fluid through the breather tube. Shut the engine off. If operation is normal and all fittings and hoses are secure then remove the vehicle from the stands and take it for a test drive. Record the amount of fluid it took to fill the transmission, the mileage and date in your maintenance manual.
For the first month check the fluid level weekly and note the amount added in your maintenance record that is provided in this package.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,003 Posts
here are some adjustments for you:

Transmission Adjustments for the C4 Automatic

Perform these adjustments in the order they are presented. Each successive adjustment relies on the preceding adjustment(s) in order to be accurate.

Set the parking brake and block the wheels. Shut the engine off and remove keys from ignition switch before making these adjustments:

Throttle Linkage:
With the throttle pedal pressed and held to the floor Adjust linkage at the carburetor to ensure that the throttle plates are completely open without binding or moving over center. Check to be sure that engine idle is not impaired and is properly adjusted.

the two adjustments that follow are best done with the car jacked and blocked off the ground so that you can access the linkage under the car.
Kick-Down Linkage:
With the throttle held in the Wide Open Throttle position and the kick-down rod held fully depressed:
Move the adjusting screw to provide .060" clearance between the adjusting screw and throttle lever.

Shift Linkage:
Place and hold gear selector lever in "Drive" and against its stop. (toward low gear)
Loosen the adjustment lock-nut at the transmission case lever.
Remove the linkage rod or cable end. Shift the manual lever to the "Drive" position.
Adjust the linkage to go on the manual lever without moving it in either direction.
Tighten the lock-nut and check the operation of the linkage from inside the car.
Readjust as required.

the following adjustment should be done after fluid is added to the transmission, when the engine can be started.
Neutral Start Switch: (for case mounted switch only)
Place the transmission in neutral.
Loosen the two bolts that attach the switch to the transmission case.
Gently rotate the switch assembly back and forth until a #43 (.089&quot
drill bit can be inserted through the alignment hole in the switch housing.
Lock the switch in place with the two bolts and test the operation of the switch.
The engine should crank only in "Park" or neutral. In reverse the backup lights should come on.

Band adjustments:
If you have installed a shift kit follow the instructions in the kit. If you have just received one of my transmissions and wish to double check the band adjustment or it is time to make the adjustment follow these instructions:
Front (intermediate or second gear band) adjustment; With a 3/4 inch wrench loosen the lock nut 3/4 of a turn and hold it there. Tighten the screw firmly and back it out 1 1/2 turns. Hold the screw in this position and tighten the locknut.
Rear (reverse band) adjustment; With a 3/4 inch wrench loosen the locknut 3/4 of a turn and hold it there. Tighten the screw firmly and back it out 3 turns and hold the screw in that position. Tighten the locknut.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
21 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Finally some useful information. Thanks a bunch. We dropped the trans last night and pulled the converter off and there it was a ripped seal just as you described. My son installed the converter but didn't lube the seal or shaft and wammo! We won't break back into the trans at this time as I feel everything is still ok inside. If I remember and understand you correctly the side of the pump body (cover) will have a groove cut in the diameter to place the o'ring? This one didn't have a groove, but I thought the ring went just outside the pump body sandwiched between the case and bellhousing. It didn't have one when we overhauled it. We will dump the converter and drain the trans and refill with new fluid. We have new cooler lines on. Do you recommend a external cooler? Should I tap into the existing line to the near radiator? Only type "F" fluid? Will Dextron III work? Thanks again for the info.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,003 Posts
Glad to hear that the tranny is running better - you did a good job rebuilding it! and learned a few good lessons along the way.
Yes, I recommend external coolers. I recommend the big coolersfor a stock tranny with a stock motor use a cooler with 12000 lb towing capacity or larger. For a modified tranny or any tranny behind a modified motor use one that is rated 24000 lbs or more. You will never run a transmission too cold unless you live in north Alaska or the south pole. In-line transmission filters are also good to install. If you want to run the cooler in the radiator and an external cooler I recommend that you cut the supply side of the cooler line (from the front fitting on the tranny) and go through the external cooler first and then back to the radiator cooler and out the other side to the rear fitting on the tranny. That will cool your oil more and help the radiator stay cool too. If you add the in-line filter (it is a special unit made for the transmission) then install it in the other cooler line (the one that goes to the rear fitting on the tranny) that will remove any contaminants before it gets to the tranny rear lube circuit.
Dextron III will burn at 50 degrees lower temperature than type "F". Always use type "F" if it is available. If it isn't available then Dextron III or Mercon will work as long as you keep it cool. If the oil starts to turn brown and smell bad, change the oil and get a larger cooler on right away. Dextron allows too much slipage and that causes heat. You need to get rid of that heat or you will be rebuilding the tranny again.
Paul
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
21 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Well I'm about to give up. Since my last post I've had the trans out three times to replace the front seal and the pump bolts were not tight. The next time again I replaced the seal and all of the bolts could be removed without a wrench, not even finger tight. Well guess what. Its leaking again from the bellhousing, but we're getting real good at it taking it out. (out and back in less than fours. The last time it was out I used thread lock. Could there be cracks in the trans tapped holes? I can torque to specs (20ft. lbs.) without any problem, so what gives? I'm about to purchase a reman and give up on this one. I'm only out the cost of a rebuild kit and several weekends. It will last about a week or so before it gives out. My son (the daily driver of the stang) thinks the engine is too much for the trans. (wants a C6) How much trouble is that to install instead of the C4? (289 engine). Also the trans will shift up ok, but tends to shift down real hard and will shift out of 3rd to 2nd slowing down at around 30 mph. What's causing the hard shift down? Where (who?) has the best deals on transmissions?


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: my67mustake on 10/21/06 9:53am ]</font>
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
2,833 Posts
Engine isn't to big for the trans. C-4 will handle lots of HP and abuse. The threads could be stripped in the alumunium housing. That's not hard to do. As for a rebuilt trans, how's the funding and where do you live?
 
1 - 14 of 14 Posts
Top