[slick mo fo]

at this time on my 351C closed 4V, I have a Holley 750,on top of a Performer and I don't like the preformer it only 5,500 rpm. I ran into a Weiland tunnel ram for $75, I'm thinking of grabbing it, but do I need it?

here is the question, what would be better (all around bang for the buck);

the tunnel ram with dual quads, (then I have to buy 2 more carbs)
or a new intake and give it a shot of nitro?

if the nitro combo with my new 750, what intake? (for 1,500 to 7000 rpms)
I like the idea of a daily driver,

I guess it boils down to this, will the 750 with NOS give me the same power on the track as the ram set up? and what one is going to tear up my new Cleveland faster?

Thanks

 

[MightyMach]

Although probably not what you are looking for here I go...
first of all, did you match your intake to the rest of your Combos RPM range? ie cam, gears, pistons? If so, how are you going to pull the extra 1500 RPMs?

Assuming that you did here is the next:
I have heard that a dual tunnel ram is a pain in the ass to tune...and if you want to daily drive it, that might be tough!! If you used cast pistons Nitros Oxide would probably destroy your motor at 7000 RPMs and used a healthy Shot.

There is a lot better info out there then that...that is just the hearsay that I have heard. Experienced people, or more knowledgeable wanna have a go at it, how did I do?

Jeff Given

 

[Mach1Morgan]

A decent performance intake with a single 750 and nitrous will run circles around a tunnel ram/dual carb setup. If you have forged pistons adding 150 HP is easy and a reliable 200 HP kit is not out of the question. You'ld be fortunate to make 50 extra HP with a tunnel ram. Also, most tunnel rams for 4V Clevelands have runners that usually match the size of 4V heads. You'll lose lots of torque below 4500 or 5000 RPM. Nitrous does just the opposite. It adds gobs of torque, especially at lower RPM levels, say between 3000 and 4000 and makes your engine feel like a big block.

 

[slick mo fo]

thanks Mach 1, I do like the idea of being able to drive to work and around about with out waisting all that gas. Then when it's time to bang heads hit the nitro....
What kind of intake would you recamend? I was thinking maybe the performer RPM, or see what Weiland has to offer. Summit doesn't offer to much in their catalog for my plant, doesn't mean they don't have it or can't get it.

Jeff, I have a good fresh rebuild 4 bolt mains, .030 over, K.B. hypers, and a descent RV cam. I had it built with NOS or a blower in mind. I also had my C6 built to handle it. I did have enough power to throw the drive shaft and break loose the perches on the 9" (now ready to buy a Tractech Detroit). that's another story...

thanks, I had a feeling, just needed to hear it from someone else.

So, what intake????????

 

[Mach1Morgan]

Your intake choice depends a lot on what cam and lifters you have in your engine and ultimately, how high you want to rev it. Edelbrock doesn't make an RPM Performer for a Cleveland but they make a Performer. It's basically the same intake as the old F351-4V and has an RPM range of about 1500-5500. My choice for a 4V Cleveland intake would be a Blue Thunder which is sold through Probe Industries. It's a high rise, large runner dual plane design that is capable of producing excellent torque numbers as low as 3000 RPM but will still flow enough to make almost 500HP at nearly 7000 RPM. You have to run a distributor with a small diameter cap with that intake though. That's as easy as removing the big cap, it's rotor and the distibutor to cap adaptor and replacing it with an old 60's style small cap and rotor. For single planes there's also the Torker which is good from about 3300 to over 7000 RPM and the Weiand Accelerator which works almost as good in the same RPM range but is lower and fits under some hoods better. From the dyno test I've seen though unless I was after a very mild combination I'd go with the Blue Thunder intake.

 

[windsoreight]

I will say a tunnel ram looks sweet. I was getting 18 MPG in my 68 Mustang with a built 351W topped with 2 600 Holleys on a Weiand tunnel ram. Wy car was street only. If I were to race tunnel ram would not be my first choice.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: windsoreight on 2/26/02 9:43am ]</font>

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: windsoreight on 2/26/02 9:44am ]</font>

 

[dark7068]

Here's a Cleveland with a tunnel ram. This is my stroker before being built. I traded the tunnel ram for a few other things, but sold one of the things I traded and buying another tunnel ram later. Nothing looks meaner then a tunnel ram (except maybe a blower).
The tunnel ram is just mocked up with carbs I had kicking around, so it's not set-up.

 

[dark7068]

Here's the set-up I traded. It had 2 600cfm Holleys.

Rick

 

[slick mo fo]

no doubt about it they look cool, but tuning 2 4bbls, what a pain in the ass (for me anyhow), 18 mph, thats not to bad.

I aleady have the Performer, and it's like the thing has a governor on it. I would like to get 7000 RPM's out of her, but don't want to kill my low end torque. I have hydrolic lifters, and the spec card for the cam reads;

cam lift- int .281 exh .296 valve lift- int .486 exh .512
lobe ctr- int 106 exh 118 SAE duration-282 int 292 exh .050 duration- 204 int 214 exh

maybe you guys can tell me what these #'s mean. It doesn't lop like a heavy cam, but it does run good. it is an RV.

so, how can I get this Blue Thunder? does Probe Ind. have a web site?

2 Q's, what cam is this? and whare to find blue thunder?

 

[slick mo fo]

Oh, I have a Malloy dist. is that small enough?

 

[MightyMach]

Witht that Cam, I dont think that you are gonna be able to pull to 7000 RPMs. May have to go to a bigger stick for that

Also, I dont think that you will get 18 MPG on your cleveland...brand new my 351 C 4v did not get better then 200 Miles a tank (19.5 gal tank) Parents have both told me this.

Not knocking you or your combo!!! just trying to help!!!

Jeff Given

 

[Mach1Morgan]

I aleady have the Performer, and it's like the thing has a governor on it. I would like to get 7000 RPM's out of her, but don't want to kill my low end torque. I have hydrolic lifters, and the spec card for the cam reads;

cam lift- int .281 exh .296 valve lift- int .486 exh .512
lobe ctr- int 106 exh 118 SAE duration-282 int 292 exh .050 duration- 204 int 214 exh

maybe you guys can tell me what these #'s mean. It doesn't lop like a heavy cam, but it does run good. it is an RV.

so, how can I get this Blue Thunder? does Probe Ind. have a web site?

2 Q's, what cam is this? and whare to find blue thunder?

The first thing that you should consider if you want to spin your engine to 7000 RPM is getting a solid lifter cam. Hydraulic cams can be made to spin to 7000 but the tappet deceleration rates of the lobes themselves have to be mild and the valve train components quite light. A solid will make more power everywhere in the powerband and will make more vacuum and fuel economy than an equivalently sized hydraulic cam will as well. The cam that you described is very small. It's even smaller than the 1972 266HP factory 351CJ cam. I'd recommend something like the Ultradyne 272/282 solid for your engine. It's advertised as being very streetable, idles with a slight lope and makes power from 2800 - 7000 RPM. You'll definetly know you have a cam in there and the low end torque won't be what it was with the little cam but it's the minimum you need to make good power to 7000 RPM.
Yes, Probe Industries has a website. Believe it or not it's:

http://www.probeindustries.com/

 

[slick mo fo]

I do like the bigger cam idea, I'll check into the Ultradyne or a cam simular to your sugested lift.

As far as the Blue Thunder, I gave Probe a call, and they recamended I go with a Weiand Stealth. Due to the fact it has an open plenum as opposed to a dual. I don't know that much about the differance, and the guy was kinda veague. He even recamended getting it from Summit.
It does need to be streetable (daily driver) but with a new cam and the 750 with either intake should be a big plus++++++++

What's your take on the Weiand vs. the Blue Thunder?

thanks for all your inputs

 

[Mach1Morgan]

The vague guy must have been sniffing glue or something. Weiand Stealth intakes are dual plane manifolds as well, just like the Blue Thunder. However, they don't even make a Stealth intake for a 9.2 deck height Cleveland. All they make is the Weiand Accelerator single plane, which from the dyno tests I've seen on them work reasonable well if you don't need torque under about 3200 RPM. If you decide not to run a Blue Thunder intake my choice would be the Edelbrock Torker.
Remember though, if you decide to run a bigger solid cam, you'll have to get compatible valve springs and you'll have to make the valvetrain adjustable so you can set the lash. Crane makes a kit that'll work as long as you don't choose valve springs that are up over about 330 lbs at full lift.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: mach1morgan on 2/28/02 10:33am ]</font>

 

[slick mo fo]

I'm going to want that low end torque, I'm thinking asking for 7000rpm in a daily driver is to much. In Summit (re; Torker) they even say not recamended for a daily driver, no low end. That could also be to much cam,

now what????

the cam I have is to mellow, a solid lifter might be to wild, if I could find a happy medium and run that blue thunder, would I have a streetable ride. or????

I'm looking for a good combo that is street able, and eats Corvets. is that to much to ask?

 

[Just Strokin]

My understanding is the Holley Strip Dominator intake for the cleveland is to be re-released here in a few months. I would conside that over the tunnel ram for a serious hi rpm combo.

 

[Mach1Morgan]

A lot of this depends on what you consider streetable. For different people it means different things. I ran that Ultradyne cam through my Engine Analyzer and it predicted 10.5 inches of idle vacuum. Being that it's a solid cam 238 degrees isn't really that much, plus it's ground on a 112 lobe seperation which will make easier to live with. It's hard to find a solid smaller than that but if 7000 RPM is you goal a solid cam is almost a neccesity. I would call that cam streetable, but I also consider 3000 stalls and Torker manifolds streetable too. That cam with either a Blue Thunder or a Torker intake should make over 400HP if you have a good exhaust system behind it, definetly enough to do in most vettes.

 

[slick mo fo]

the stall I have in the C6 is 2300-2600 with a B&M kit, and the exhaust I'm running headers down to 2 1/2" duals straight back, and just bought flowmaster 2 chambers. when the time comes to hang the exaust back up I might have them put an "X" before the mufflers. I know the 2.5" is boarder line but will have to do for now.

when the time comes, for the change over, I'll think seriously about the combo you sugested, it sound good to me as long as I can idle and have vacuum....


thanks for all your input.