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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
On the 15th run I started losing 3 MPH just after 60ft all the way thru the 1/4 mi. On the 19th run I started losing 5 MPH. I thought the converter was going and since I was in a race at the time I kept dialing my ET up to compensate for the loss of MPH, it worked till the 4th round when I just couldn't run the number.

Monday ordered a new converter, pulled the tranny and just waited for it to arrive ( 8 days ). When it arrived I tried to install it but I can't get it to engage the front pump all the way with out locking up. I tried the old converter and it locks up on the pump as well. Wish I knew that 8 days ago.

Now I'm wondering if the pump went out first and took out the converter or if the converter took out the pump. Why would this pump seize up after 23 runs, are the gears broken?

Any thoughts on what caused this or if my troubleshooting is correct?

I really want to pull the pump out and look for myself, but it has that lifetime warranty and I must ship it back for repairs, so said PA when I called them this morning. They told me if I pull the pump I'm on my own.

Just when I thought my tranny troubles were behind me.

Jeff


 

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You have got no choice, send it back. It sounds like broken pump gears to me.
 

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Might have spun in the gears.. broke gears and you would have had a dead tranny.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Performance Automatic just called to say they just finished repairing the tranny. The front pump gears were broken.

They told me it's being shipped back on roadway trucking and when I asked what will be the cost to ship, they said the invoice stated 0.00. I'm having a hard time believing that PA will eat the replacement parts cost and the shipping back to me.

I just bet I'm in for a C.O.D bill on arrival.

Does anyone have any experience with PA when it comes to shipping back parts under warranty....?

Jeff
 

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So did they happen to say why they might have broken? Surely they would talk with you to prevent an issue happening again.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
No, they didn't mention why the gears broke.

You have a good point gregaust, I will try and find out what caused the failure. So far they've been very short and too the point on the phone, seems like they don't have time to answer questions. I'll try to find out though.

Jeff
 

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Did you get the converter fully engaged? Did you put the converter in and then it slid out (not knowing) and use the bell housing bolts to pull the trans up to the block while the converter may have slid out of engagement? Just a guess.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
PA said they don't know why the pump broke. Said they believe it was a defective part.

I know parts break and I know you can't always spot a manufacturing defect until the part breaks, but 23 runs come on.

Now something to think about...What if ?

This tranny is they're top of the line model, they say it has all the good parts in it, and it's warranted for life. Since it's warranted they can put whatever parts in the trans they want. I can't open it up to find out or at least I'm not willing to open it up at this point. Could of had a used stock pump and gears for all I know.
I'm not saying they're putting in bad or mediocre parts, all I'm saying is if they build it, and they warranty it, and as long as I live under the warranty I'll never know the quality of parts going in. It wouldn't make me happy if all the good parts aren't in there, but I really can't complain about it now can I.

I'm not accusing PA of any wrong doing in anyway. I'm just thinking out loud...I probably should of kept my mouth shut. Oh well.....
 

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I have had some experience with PA. I own 2 of their super comp trannys. the first tranny was great until i installed a PA Trans brake into it and all my car did was back up when it was activated and Bill at PA was more than happy to make it right with me, i had a new valve body in less than a week. Now this is where it get messed up. With the new Trans brake installed it worked great for 4 Dyno pulls and about 25 niles before i lost all forward gears, i installed the original reverse manual valve body and sent the tranny in with the trans brake in a box for a refund, No problem so far other than Harvey is very short and to the point on the phone. I got that tranny back in about 2 weeks and PA paid the shipping. In the mean time while that trany was being repaired i went dirrectly to summit and purchased a brand new C4 Super Comp and installed it in my car that weekend and hell i couldn't drive 35 miles before the damn thing was spewing fluid all over the place. So i called Bill at PA he says "you tore the pump seal replace it" ok not a big deal changed the seal. Well 60 miles later on the way to the track as soon as i pull into the tech line FLUID pouring on the ground WTF! come to find out my converter is junk! OK tranny comes out goes back to PA, I call Coan shell out 975$ for a new converter wait over 2 weeks for PA to call about my tranny they don't i have to call them. I called them on a thursday Bill says "C4 freseen ups are being done Friday." Cool i get a call at 11:30 Friday "Tranny is done The stator got hot that will be 225$ shipping Via Roadway" Um NO! can i send a bill of laiding and have PJAX pick it up much cheaper for me? "No problem" Bill says I have my bill of laiding to them by noon and my tranny dosen't ship out till the follwing monday what a joke. so i get my trany back on thursday i get it in the car with the new converter and gues what no gears when i put her on the ground MAN AM I PO'D...... I call Bill at PA on monday he says"pull the pump and see if your gears are broke" don't that void my warranty? he says "NO if they aren't broke call me" ok the gears aren't broke so i call him tuesday morning.Bill the gears aren't broke but it looks like i messed up the stator housing!?" 225$ for a new pump and ill ship it out today" Bill says HMM not i called on friday and they never shipped it and had no explanation as to why or why it cost me 225$ for a part i can get from Jegs for 161$.. So by my long winded story you be your own judge but i think for the most part PA SUCKS.
 

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Mmm,well i don't usually complain but i have used quite a bit of PA parts,6 gear planets ,input shafts ,clutch kits and pans and dipsticks and shift kits.
Well living in Australia to is not easy to get this stuff and it costs$$$ but i used their stuff because it was the best .A few weeks ago on my own C4 fitted a new PA dipstick tube,look under car big pool of oil coming from poor weld on tube. Contacted them was told can't i get it repaired locally... My point was i spent good $$ and i shouldn't have to get it repaired mmmmmm.
Also contacted them concerning purchasing a valvebody or a kit the same as they spec for their 750HP pro street c4.I was happy to get either the whole V.B or kit whatever they suggested.Got thkit which was nothing more than the most basic transgo shift improver kit. Well i recontacted them to confirm that it was the correct kit.
I'm sorry but i dont believe that that basic little kit will hold 750HP.
Seems PA used to be real good but i think they're attitude is leaving them behind.From some of the things you hear ,not that you believe everything they think they are too good now to deal with the people that made them popular. I wish dynamic had a much better site to show all their products so they were more accessible accross the ocean.
Ok had my whinge now.....
 

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Yep, I think PA used to be the "king" but now they are getting left way behind. Their customers relations have definitely not improved by the sounds of things. I pulled one of their braked VB's apart to clean it out (and see how it worked), I was amazed at things like brass grub screws used behind springs as spacers and the like. Its the sort of things used, you would do when your rumbling round the workshop looking for a spacer when you've got two hours to be at the track....didn't look too perfessional.
 

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On 2006-08-12 13:20, gregaust wrote:
Mmm,well i don't usually complain but i have used quite a bit of PA parts,6 gear planets ,input shafts ,clutch kits and pans and dipsticks and shift kits.
Well living in Australia to is not easy to get this stuff and it costs$$$ but i used their stuff because it was the best .
Seems PA used to be real good but i think they're attitude is leaving them behind.From some of the things you hear ,not that you believe everything they think they are too good now to deal with the people that made them popular. I wish dynamic had a much better site to show all their products so they were more accessible accross the ocean.
Ok had my whinge now.....
Just give Dynamic a call if you can. I suppose international calling is not desireable....but the guys at Dynamic are super on the phone. I discovered this after trying to purchase stuff form PA, and getting completely turned off to them when trying to ask a few questions about the parts I was about to order. Also, getting an answer to a basic question on my PA transbrake valvebody was near impossible. PA's customer service just plain sucks.

On a side note, PA's non-roller 6 gear planet has got nothing on Dynamic's full roller 6 gear planet.



Troy
 

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Thanks.I'm in no rush but i use use a fair bit of c4 stuff and i am keen on their planets.I might shoot dynamic an email and see what they can set up for me and if they have a listing on all the c4 bits they do..
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I was just going to let this post die, but since others have voiced they're opinions as of late, and since these types of issues with PA seem to be the norm now rather than the exception I'll weigh in again.

When I finally received my tranny back on Mon July 10th from PA via roadway express (had to take a day off of work for delivery) the shipping was taken care of by PA as I was previously told, I just didn't believe it. Now that in itself was outstanding. I uncrated the trans and to my surprise they left the input shaft out. I immediately got on the phone with them, after some discussion with the builder/rebuilder, I could hear this going on in the back ground, they decided they indeed left it out and agreed to send one out sameday. I ask how long will it take, I was 3 days. Well on Fri July 14th when the shaft didn't arrive I called back PA to ask if it had been shipped, I was told it went out on the 10th as promised, but wouldn't arrive until the 17th, another race missed that now made 3.

Everything went together fine after that, although after the repair this tranny is very tight to the point I had too increase my idle rpm up to 1300 to get it to idle at 900 rpm in gear. Started to free up some after the 3rd run or so (could be the new converter), also when down shifting back to 1st gear coming into the staging lines it feels like it has 1st gear braking it's so hard it squawks the tires.

They did stand behind they're product, even though they made mistakes along the way. I don't think I'll make another large purchase with them.

Jeff
 

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sounds like some real nightmares! I'm glad I just stock junk C4's and one GOOD powerglide. Built them myself...both for less than 1/2 what PA wants...and the C4 works just as good as a PA C4 that is in a friend's Mustang. In fact, I am building him another one now as his PA trans has a few runs on it and it's starting to flare into 3rd. One of my C4s has over 1000 passes on it. I'd have to dig out the log book, but I remember passing the 1000 mark back in May, and it still works as good as the day I put it in. I think I have about $60 in it....10.80's ET 1/4 in a 2500 lb fairmont. The Powerglide has 656 on it...still kicking...runs 6.0's at 114 1/8 mile. Both are footbrake only, though the 'glide has a few 'brake passes on it when I ran the 6.0 index.

I was seriously considering buying a PA C4 back when I re-did my Maverick...decided to go with a 'glide for it's consistency and simplicity..and I'm glad I did. They're SOOOOO easy to mess with!
 

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Love to hear success stories.Can you post what you put in your builds.Maybe we should start a post where we all add what we do for various combos
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Yeah Mavman, it's been a nightmare. I would get about 200 runs on my own C-4 rebuilds. Only reason to go with the PA this time was my other C-4 had some erosion issues in the case from being in service (racing) for 10 years. The other goal I had was to eventually have a spare trans and converter ready to go when one gave up the ghost. I thought I could get this done over the winter months, but had to buy the new converter right after putting in that new PA C-4. I really thought I'd save time and money in the long run, boy was I wrong...!

Greg has a great idea... I'd love to hear what's in a C-4 or PG that lets it live 600 - 1000 runs, that's 3 or 4 years for me before rebuilds.
 

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Guys,
Not bragging but my C4 was in my drag car for 4 years without touching it. Never even changed the fluid. It was behind a 306 in a Pinto and at the time ran anywhere over the years from a best of 7.09 to a high 7.20's most of the time.
I think the key was the 5500 TCI converter and also I ran a 6.20 gear with 31 inch tires.
The trans was built by a old friend of mine. I have since been in the trans (thanks to this board) and the only thing I saw that he did was a servo mod. where you gring the inner seal from the servo and plug the I guess vent hole inside the servo cavity (would someone explain). The valve body was a JW Performance reverse manual. This is the only mods that I could see.
And yes it did have a flair between 2 and 3.... but never seemed to get worse as time passed.........
 

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That servo mod is ok,has mixed opinions.It basically gives a larger surface area to apply. I have used a billet servo i bought while in california that was specially made like that. I used it with a stage 2 transgo kit and it sure did shift solid.Only downside is with the stock cover ,the cover can flex and leak at the gasket. Glad yours worked good.
 

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Greg, did the servo you brought back have lip seals or square cuts seals in it? Seems to be alot appearing with all lip seals these days?
 
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