Ford Muscle Cars Tech Forum banner
1 - 13 of 13 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
233 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm diagnosing my hot-running '67 Country Sedan 390. Runs ~185-190 on the highway, overheats in stop and go traffic. It's got a new 6 blade fan, shroud and recently re-cored 3-row radiator.

Before I start installing electric fan(s), I figured I'd pull the water pump to see if it's the last weak link.

See pictures:
Rusty Water Pump (5) on Flickr - Photo Sharing!
Rusty Water Pump (6) on Flickr - Photo Sharing!
Rusty Water Pump (9) on Flickr - Photo Sharing!
Rusty Water Pump (4) on Flickr - Photo Sharing!
(there are a couple more if you click forward/back in the set)

So...there's rust in there, but it's not the horrible clogged-up or eroded-impeller mess that I usually associate with a bad water pump. In fact, the impeller looks pretty good (unless I'm missing something?). It doesn't have typical Ford casting numbers, so I'm pretty sure it's a replacement unit (meaning it's not 43 years old).

Would you replace this?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,233 Posts
You could replace it but I personally do not think that will solve your problem. Have you looked at the thermostat by chance? I experienced the same issue with my car when I first bought it. I tried different fan setups, shrouds, an electric fan and new stock relacement radiator. The only thing that worked was getting rid of the stock radiator for a larger aluminum replacement with more coolant capacity. No more problems and I run a stock water pump as well. However, my car would overheat on the highway as well.

An electric fan will likely help you out while in traffic; it will give you the airflow you need to keep the engine cool when the car is not moving and rpms are low. You might try upping the thermostat to a 190'F while you're at it. If you are running 185-190 with an electric fan in traffic then that is not out of the ordinary.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
233 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Have you looked at the thermostat by chance?...You might try upping the thermostat to a 190'F while you're at it. If you are running 185-190 with an electric fan in traffic then that is not out of the ordinary.
I believe thermostat is 180. IIRC, OE is 195. How would going to a higher-temp thermostat help?

I don't have the electric fan in yet, but yesterday was half price day at the junkyard, so I've got an assortment to play with. It heats up to really hot (230++) waiting at a long light, but as soon as I get moving it cools down. Pretty sure the electric fan will fix the problem, but it's frustrating to need it. With everything else fine, the car shouldn't overheat so fast.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,662 Posts
I believe thermostat is 180. IIRC, OE is 195. How would going to a higher-temp thermostat help?

I don't have the electric fan in yet, but yesterday was half price day at the junkyard, so I've got an assortment to play with. It heats up to really hot (230++) waiting at a long light, but as soon as I get moving it cools down. Pretty sure the electric fan will fix the problem, but it's frustrating to need it. With everything else fine, the car shouldn't overheat so fast.
I really doubt the oe thermostat is a 195..That is typical of newer EFI cars but most of the older stuff was 180max..I would try replacing the T stat with a 180 to start..Is the fan you have a stock fan?..Switching to an electric fan is often a step backwards in cooling unless it is a very powerful unit..
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
189 Posts
I'd keep that water pump. Just take some wire brushes and steel wool and clean off most of the rust, then rinse it out really good. Gun cleaning bore brushes will help clean out the pipes and the hard to reach places.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
34,855 Posts
Electric fans do not tend to move air like the OEM Except at idle, but I must say that your Water pump is in excellent condition but SOMEBODY has been running too much Water in their coolant...

Look to your timing to help cool your engine also.

The 180* stat will be open ALL the time if you have an engine that runs' hot and your motor won't cool as efficiently as if it had a 190* stat in it that will close occasionally and allow the coolant in the rad to cool before being pulled back into the engine.

That's my Two Cents...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
233 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I really doubt the oe thermostat is a 195..That is typical of newer EFI cars but most of the older stuff was 180max..I would try replacing the T stat with a 180 to start..Is the fan you have a stock fan?..Switching to an electric fan is often a step backwards in cooling unless it is a very powerful unit..
It's 195, according to Rockauto:
RockAuto Parts Catalog
It has a 180 (or lower) in it now.

I guess I need to clear a few things up:
I'm currently running a 6-blade Derale mechanical fan with no clutch
When I'm taking about putting an electric fan on it, I was going to put a pusher fan in front and keep the mechanical fan. Basically a helper fan.

Water pump is in excellent condition but SOMEBODY has been running too much Water in their coolant...
Typically somewhere between 50 and 75% water. Water's a more effective cooling medium than coolant, and it doesn't freeze here.

Look to your timing to help cool your engine also.
Right now it's 12* BTDC at idle (which is where it heats up). What do you suggest?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
780 Posts
Overheating at idle but ok at freeway speed could indicate poor airflow. Is there anything blocking the radiator? Does it have an AC condensor in front of the radiator and if so is it blocking the air?

Does your water pump\fan spin fast enough at idle? Are all of the pulleys OE? BTW, don't leave the water pump out for very long. The seals will dry out and shrink and sure as hell it will leak shortly after being re-installed.

If there's room, you could install a fan in front of the radiator and have it blow through. That way you still have the belt driven fan also.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
233 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Overheating at idle but ok at freeway speed could indicate poor airflow. Is there anything blocking the radiator?
Nothing but the stock grille

Does your water pump\fan spin fast enough at idle? Are all of the pulleys OE?
In searching for solutions to this surprisingly common problem with FEs (seriosuly, there's like a dozen other threads just like this one: stock engine, nothing funky going on, overheats at idle), I found thread where a guy with an F250 solved his problem by going to a smaller diameter pulley (unclear if his was OE or not to begin with).

Based on that, I checked out the pulley on my WP. The correct one should be 6.10" diam, P/N C6AZ-8509-D, 3-row for a car w/ a smog pump.

But, what's actually on there is a 6 3/4" diam 3-row, which corresponds to a C9AZ-8509-C 3-row. So yeah, it's a little bigger than it should be.

In doing the research, I found that a 6AZ-8509-A is a 5 7/8" diameter two-row (took my smog pump out), which would get me about 15% more velocity over what's on there now.

A few vendors want $45-75 for various used/new ones. Found one (that's unfortunately chrome) for $25 on eBay. Given the parts overlap on that -A part (almost any 65-67 Ford), there's a good chance you could find one in a yard that still has old cars or on something being parted out.

Great references:
Pulley
http://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/yhst-11089400041767_2106_144285498
 
1 - 13 of 13 Posts
Top