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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
i was wondering if any one has any opinion about procomp's heads and how they compare to other after market heads. the reason i asked is i found a new a set cnc'd. with farea valves and comp springs for $1100
 

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or a canfield (quality) for 1295, or an AFR (quality) for 1300-1350. Or a TFS wedge, or an edelbrock etc etc. I wouldnt touch it for 1100 with your money. It's foolish in my opinion, maybe 700-800 MAX. This head subject has been beat to death dozens of times over.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
thanks for the replys i just wished i had heard this a few weeks earlier, i almost got a set of kaase heads, but chose to try to save some money
 

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I like my ProComp heads. They were flawless when o got them. Cleaned up the bowls. ( as i would have had to with most any)
Flowed 277 CFM out of the box on a flow bench. All machining was right on.
I have a pro Comp dizzy and a 6al knock off box. Oh bt the way the 6al knock off has now lasted twice as long as my MSD 6al did.
i got the 210cc 2.05/1.60 heads bare for $498 + shipping. Darn hard to beat for the price.
 

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if you want a "good" pro-comp story read some of my threads that detail my pro comp night mare-i learned the hard way so you don't have to ! AFR ,#1 for a reason-lol
 

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I'm not an AFR fan, but will say the are mile's ahead of any of the Chinese Knock-offs. You do get what you pay for.
 

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i got the 210cc 2.05/1.60 heads bare for $498 + shipping. Darn hard to beat for the price.
the victor jrs on my car were $510 free shipping each. Friend bought the exact same heads as you're describing....later switched to the Victor Jrs...and picked up .6 in the 1/8 and 11 mph. Outta tell you something right there. Both sets were box stock untouched other than he bought the jrs same way I did...valves only (no springs, retainers, etc) and I set them up for him. Plus when we bought the E heads we're not sending our hard-earned money over to a foreign communist country
 

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i have one set of pro comp heads bare im going to have the cnc ported when i get the time but the next set of heads i get will be RHS pro action heads had a set before my dumb ass sold them but i will own a set of those big valve jobs again in either iron or aluminum.
 

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You get what you pay for, You get what you pay for, You get what you pay for.
How many times have I heard or read that. You go out and buy the most expensive thing you 'can't' afford and it turns out to be crap. but you still get what you pay for.
 

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On 2006-10-31 16:53, retyler wrote:
You get what you pay for, You get what you pay for, You get what you pay for.
How many times have I heard or read that. You go out and buy the most expensive thing you 'can't' afford and it turns out to be crap. but you still get what you pay for.
any examples of expensive cylinder heads that are crap?
 

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I bought a set of Pro Comp. Haven´t tested yeat on the motor, but they look great. Justa havew clean the bowls. Mine were les than 600$/pair with ford lenght valves... I´m using rest of the valvetrain from my presious setup, which is less than year old, CompCams springs etc.

They are definatly NOT a bolt on heads, you have inspect them, and clean them up before assembly. If you can do it yourself, then it´s "best bang with a buck".

Rest of the engine is 40-year old abused iron, these can´t be worse
 

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I see lots of people bad mouth these heads and yet almost none of the complainers have run them. That erks me. Basically they look at the fact that they originated in China and deduce they are total junk or they see that the heads were realistic knockoff of the Eddie heads and that makes them vocal. To both of those claims, I say to each there own. I have a business degree and understand international commerce. Right or wrong, our country has become part of the global economy. That is the big picture and if that bothers you OK I respect your opinion if you choose to buy all-American made products.

My point is that lots of negative stuff gets repeated over and over on the web, and yet there is very little criticism from actual users. Of course some people have had issues, name a product that doesn't. Very few actual RUNNING problems have surfaced regarding the actual castings. Thousands of these castings have been sold and I am sure they are not all sitting on the shelves.

(By the way, I appreciate Mavman's input on poor performance and I am appalled by the picture of the BBF heads that were recently posted. IIRC, Badmts problems were the push rod hole alignment issue--which is commonly known and he had to have the valve seats redone--which can be screwed up on almost any mass produced head.) These are actual testimonials based upon facts or pictures and I certainly wish they had better experiences.

When a person has a negative experience, they have no problem sharing them. I think that the old business adage is that on the average they will each tell 10 people, whereas someone that has had a good experience with something will typically only tell one or two people. I have yet to see a horde of actual users express displeasure beyond those items that have already been thoroughly covered on most sites. I know that lots of these heads have been sold and are in use.

Here is my input and some recommendations based upon my actual usage.

I have had Pro Comp heads on my car for the past year and over 1800 miles. I've run my solid lifter 393 hard most of the summer, banging the 4 speed at 6400rpm. I have had ZERO mechanical issues with these heads and plan on reinstalling them after a possible block refresh this winter.

My heads are an early set of 210's that I purchased 2 years ago from Jim at TriState cylinder heads when they first came on the market. Few people had heard of them then and I was one of the first to work with them. As far as head quality, the base SBF 210 castings are nice. It is the machine work that sucked, but that was an easy fix. I had to deal with the offset pushrod holes and needed to pocket port the heads to clean up the area under the hardened valve seat. That was the extent of work needed, although in hind sight I should have unshrouded the combustion chambers for the the 2.055/1.60 valves. Nothing hard, just a little time consuming, but so is any part of a performance build. You check and you correct. After I was done with the basic work, I had our local high performance shop examine and assemble the heads and then blessed them for the intended use.

That is one point I want to make. These heads are not simple "buy it cheap and bolt it on affairs." This is a valid area of criticism. There are casting problems that should be addressed (already documented on the web.) There are also some good companies that sell these heads that have taken care of those flaws prior to delivery.

That brings up another point. If you really want to know what is truly wrong with running these heads? It is not the fact that they are cast in China. It is the crappy valves, springs, and retainers that quick to make a buck companies market the heads with to keep the prices down. Remember that the ProComp heads are delivered to the US totally bare and it is up to the distributor to decide upon the package they sell. Unscrupulous resellers can install the cheapest stuff to make the prices appear attractive. In this case it is truly a buyer beware situation as these sellers will most likely not have any type of warranty with their products.

I suggest buying your heads bare from a reparable source and then springing for good name brand quality 1 pc valves. Since you should be using the springs that are matched to your cam, you would be replacing the springs anyways. Of course you will need the appropriate retainers for those springs and there is no use in cheaping out there either. With the proper parts installed, you should feel confidence in the moving parts capabilities.

Could I go faster with a set of out of the box AFR's or real Vic Jrs? Probably. The AFR's are CNC'ed to just about their max and make a good "buy it and bolt it on solution." There is not much more you can do to them. They will cost you several hundreds more than what you will have for the ProComp's that are fully assembled with good stuff mentioned above. The Vic Jrs are not the greatest head out of the box, but they do have the ability to run decent high RPM's with some additional porting. The ProComps (remember they are Vic Jr copies) have that same ability to be CNC'ed and flow tested so who knows what there actually capability truly are? Only time will tell.
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Dennis

65' STANG, 3160 lbs

393W NA, 2.78 Toploader 4 Spd, 9" 3:70 Posi
Pro Comp Heads, Vic Jr. Intake, 750dp, 236/561 Solid Cam, 9.6CR, 1 3/4" Headers, Lakewood, Subframes, Caltracs




<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: dennis111 on 11/2/06 1:37am ]</font>
 

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Dennis you said it well.
I too have the Procomps with no complaints.
In my opinion, the "buy USA only" argument is a tired and antiquated argument. As you said, only the castings are from China. The components are from wherever the builder gets them and could very well be all American made, its up to the builder.
I would not hesitate to buy another set of these heads.
 

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Dennis, very well stated! It seems that educated input is the exception, especially when the topic is “foreign parts” for our American Muscle cars. Case in point, most folks have no idea that Comp-Cams owned “RHS” Racing Head Service cylinder heads are not native to the US. The problem, most people fail to do the homework! (of course, I always blame the parents) Actually, RHS Heads are re-marketed Pro-Topline castings from Auckland, New Zealand and not to be confused with Pro-Comp castings from China. (Talk about Global Economy!)

Here’s an article with more detail.
http://www.protopline.com/companyprofile.htm

Thanks to good parents, I too did much research on SBF cylinder heads before making a purchase. As an aerospace technical guy, I tend to get a bit geeky when digging for technical truth. I have an excel file that is probably the most comprehensive repository of flow data on SBF cylinder heads that has ever been assembled. I have flow numbers from .100” through .500” and data up to higher lift numbers on larger cylinder heads. The spreadsheet includes separate calculations of “area under the curve” for intake and exhaust ports, which happens to be a more scientifically accurate way to evaluate fluid dynamics that merely evaluating “max flow” at a valve height from the valve seat that (that in most cases, never matches the user’s camshaft). As such, I was surprised by my findings. Prior to my analysis, I had originally considered AFRs and RHS heads for my 306-engine project. I even looked at the Pro-Comp heads and quickly realized that if I bought the cheaper heads, I would need to finish the machining and installation of “high quality” detailed parts (valves and springs); no big deal, just more time and equal amount of money to the more expensive heads, in the long run.

Anyway, most Ford guys would be surprised with my choice (Dart Pro1). I know, they’re made in America… please, that was not a consideration. But having science on my side, I am assured more HP per cubic inch with my choice that what another magazine article or blog might suggest. However, if the goal is not to squeeze every drop of possible HP out of a small engine and spending the extra time and money is not an issue, buy the bare Pro-Comp castings as you suggested. Then, find a reputable machine shop (if you don’t have a valve grinding machine, valve seat cutters, etc. …like I do). And if later you decide to make some significant HP gains, go to a reputable head porting service and have them massaged.

I specially liked your statement about “Check and Correct”, which I have always referred to as “fit and finish”. Anyone that has professionally built hotrods and racecars understands that there is rarely a “bolt on” product that requires nothing to ensure it fits and is the best possible installation, producing the most possible HP. I have hundreds of examples from my 25 years of projects. I get a kick out watching TV shows where they build cars. If you watch closely, Check and Correct or Fit and Finish is the typical issue that drives the builder crazy. But, if it were easy, who would need to take their engines or cars to professionals?

To summarize, my advice is to “do your homework” and know what you are getting yourself into, up front. It will prevent you from getting “technically” in over your head or going through unanticipated steps to make something work. And realize that much of automotive building and customizing (engines or otherwise) requires some degree of fabrication work to make it perfect, regardless of its national origin.

“DP”


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<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: dpcobra on 11/18/06 1:50pm ]</font>
 
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