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Discussion Starter #41
I did do as you said to screw in the idle screws one at a time and all of them seems to be working right.One of my friends spent some time with me yesterday and we went through it like you said. It did improve the idle , but I still have a problem with it stalling and starting back up pretty hard. We also set the time with the engine reved up to 4k and got it set at 38 degrees full advanced. When it idles the timing is 20degrees. When we tried to set the timing down to 14degrees the engine did not want to run.You have a really nice looking car. Looks well thought out . The engine compartment looks great. .I never did any racing back when I was kid, but loved to go and watch. Some of my friends did.It was fun watching some of the crazy looking cars that people would put together and run.There was a 1963 Falcon with a straight front axle and ran a sb chevy engine. It ran pretty good. I have seen the same car running the streets here. The only change is the new owner painted it yellow.Detroit Dragway had some of the top racers there all the time.The guys from Chrysler and Ford were there with their own projects. Remember the silver bullet.The guys from Chevy had a big block Camaro that was a monster.My room mate and I used to go down to Woodward and watch the guys set up their races and then follow them over to Gratiot ave and watch them race. My room mate had a 69 GTX 440. He didn't race it much. Pretty much all the guys around here had quit a bit done to their cars and he's was bone stock.As far as the most friendly drivers back in the old times I think it was Don Garlit. And the funnest thing was I saw him at his Florida shop a couple years back and he still remembered me and a couple buddies. We ran a couple errands for him when he was here.Roger
 

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I did tech inspection at Bremerton Raceway back in the 90s. So of the garbage people tried to race with. My biggest issue was old and cracked brake and fuel lines.
In you #1 post you mentioned "warmed up a bit". How and how much? Did you check the sec plates for closing? That and as soon as you move the throttle you should see gas spray into the carb. Even just a little movement should get a drop or two.
The Zephyr I use, I actually ordered it from Mercury in May 1982 form a Denver dealership. Paid $7K for it. It started out as a Zephyr Z7 GS. Better suspension, trim, lighting, other goodies. But a 200 6 cyl. Actually would get 30 MPG if you babied it. 20 gal tank was part of the order. It did have PS, PB which I got rid of. That removed weight and cleaned up the engine compartment and more room.
The easy psrt I learned on the fox system was the whole front end is held in by 8 bolts. You can drop the whole front end, engine, trans, suspension real easy. That's also how you put a 460/C-6 in there. Fits real easy and with the tubar crossmember, mega room.
Drivers now are to busy trying to sale for their sponsors. Did meet John Force at the Summit drags in Ohio, 12 years ago. We were both standing in line to get something to drink. Crazy guy.
 

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Discussion Starter #43
Never met him, but from what I've seen of him on TV your right.I wish I had kept some of the car I bought years ago. I just never could get the money up to buy the new car with out selling the old car.One of the guys and his wife in my car club bought a Corvette back in 62 new . They still have it and it looks brand new.They said they never thought about selling it.I wish I would had that mind set. Here's two of the cars I sold to get another car. 103_1157.JPG IM001547.JPG
 

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I had issues with my 347 in 62 Fairlane re- water temp. On Hwy she would sit at 180 all day, but, stop at one light & watch the temp go over 200 in the time it took for light to go green! My solution was having a 3 core rad built using GDI bottom tank, stock top tank was big enough along with a Ford Tarus (spelling) electric fan. with a Flex a lite controller set to 180. The controller has what they call the "soft start" feature, fan come on a slowly revs.up & then ramps up the RPM required to cool the rad., So no big hit on your electrical system on start up.
Now, cruise on hwy at 165 F. & I can sit at a light in traffic all day & she may hit 190, I hear the fan ramp up as temp hits approx. 185 & stays on for couple minutes at most.
This summer has been brutally hot & no issues so far, other then I did blow the fan fuse once when it as almost 100 F. all day. The Tarus, Tarusus?? fan/shroud combo is an easy mod & they are cheap at wrecker, I just had to trim the shroud by 1/4" or so to clear nose of my water pump. (Aluminum pump by Stewart)
Mercury mystique has same fan/shroud too, I have see a later Taurus/Mercury with dual electric fans, mine is the single fan/shroud
 

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Discussion Starter #45
Royster, I really don't think I have a problem with the cooling system now. I installed a 3000 cfm fan, custom aluminum fan shroud,Rewired the relays,150 amp alternator,new high flow thermostat , It already has a high volume water.I took it out and the temp never got over 190 degrees.Right now my problem is it's running crappy. I took it to a mechanic i know. Should find out tomorrow whats the problem. Roger
 

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Royster, I really don't think I have a problem with the cooling system now. I installed a 3000 cfm fan, custom aluminum fan shroud,Rewired the relays,150 amp alternator,new high flow thermostat , It already has a high volume water.I took it out and the temp never got over 190 degrees.Right now my problem is it's running crappy. I took it to a mechanic i know. Should find out tomorrow whats the problem. Roger
Hope you have a good mechanic who knows about these cars.
Last year i was stranded on the side of the road cuz my module overheated. Take it to the shop and they end up replace my carburetor and plugged my vacuum advance port. They tune my engine as they read from the orginial manual said, and my engine was idle like in hell the rpm needle jumping from 400 to 800 all the time. And he cannot diagnose it was a simple module failure. And he also told me my engine's compressioi is too low which cause my rough idle.
While this year I tested the compression on it, A 302, all cylinder at 135 expect one at 127, which i believe i can call it a healthy engine. and with a little fine tunning on the carb and plug the vacuum advance back in. It is a happy running engine.
I do have the temp overheating problem back last year. To cure that I installed the 3 or 4 row aluminum rad and add 2 electric fan with the original belt fan in place. My car still got the OEM 195 thermostat in there and the original water pump. Now it runs at 198f on high way and a little over 200 when in red light or idling.
 

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Discussion Starter #47
I do think my mechanic is pretty good.Or at least I hope so. Iv'e known him for about 25 years. He's done some work for me in the past and did great work at a fair price. He also builds race cars for himself.He owns a S10 that run's in the 9's.Was your module a MSD unit?I found that my MSD coil was taking a crap so I replaced it with another brand coil. One of my buddies that runs a speed shop informed me that he was seeing alot of the MSD coils that were going bad. In the last couple months he said he's seen 4 of the same model coils as mine crap out.I think I will call my mechanic tomorrow and have him look at my module. I'm sure he has a spare module around his shop. Pretty easy to swap out.I haven't had the chance to get my car out for a long test cruise.I took it out for about one hour about a week ago. It was in the high 80's.Man was it great to have air. It did not get over 190 degrees, but it kept stalling. I hope to get it back soon and plan to get it out and test the crap out of it. As of late it seems it's one step forward then two steps back.Roger
 

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I do think my mechanic is pretty good.Or at least I hope so. Iv'e known him for about 25 years. He's done some work for me in the past and did great work at a fair price. He also builds race cars for himself.He owns a S10 that run's in the 9's.Was your module a MSD unit?I found that my MSD coil was taking a crap so I replaced it with another brand coil. One of my buddies that runs a speed shop informed me that he was seeing alot of the MSD coils that were going bad. In the last couple months he said he's seen 4 of the same model coils as mine crap out.I think I will call my mechanic tomorrow and have him look at my module. I'm sure he has a spare module around his shop. Pretty easy to swap out.I haven't had the chance to get my car out for a long test cruise.I took it out for about one hour about a week ago. It was in the high 80's.Man was it great to have air. It did not get over 190 degrees, but it kept stalling. I hope to get it back soon and plan to get it out and test the crap out of it. As of late it seems it's one step forward then two steps back.Roger
Thats good.
My car is a 79 thunderbird with everything in stock condition. So, the module is the Duraspark Module. I knew it should be a pretty reliable system, and should be working fine. And mine system it did working fine, but I just got a bad luck in those duraspark Module. They just overheat so fast, when it overheat so many times, they will fail. Stranded you on the side of the highway and u need to risk your life to change it. I just got really bored with it, and decieded to go Duraspark distributor and MSD 6A system. Hope that will gain me some luck.
I just took my car for a 800 miles road trip last weekend, and it did great. Unless my solenoid failed again.
I just really get bored with those cheap little things's low quality, even as A chinese, i hate those cheaply made in china thing.
For the A/C, the ac in my car is all stock but working real fine. Charged with 12A every year, and blowing ice cold. I Installed two electric fan on the rad and keep the mechanical fan in place, which only once the car heat over 210. I still believe 210 should be ok with this 302 motor, which the stock thermostat in my car is still 195.
 

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Discussion Starter #49
210 is not going to harm anything.I worked in a dealership back in the early in the days when the duraspark came out. We had no way to test it at the time. Dealership didn't want to float the price for the test machine. We had a new spare unit in the shop. The first time a car came in on a hook and was getting gas we popped in the spare unit. Most of the time it was the module. They did get better after a while.The MSD is by far a better unit.For some reason I thought your were talking about the MSD unit.Right now I'm having a problem with the way my engine is running. I'me pretty sure it's in the carb settings and the timing. I did a compression test a while back and the compression is perfect.I adjusted the lifters at the time .At that time the engine was running good.My problems started when I started installing the power steering and the air. At that time I tried to set the idle on the carb. Then I had a friend come over and help me . It went bad from there.We adjusted the manual secondaries. It never got better after that.Iv'e tried to readjust the carb again , got it to run better but still had the stumble and hesitation. I'm to the point where I don't want to touch it again. It's in the shop right now. Roger
 

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Discussion Starter #50
I got my car back from the shop today. Well it is running better. It doesn't stall out When i give it some gas from the light, it doesn't stall. I reinstalled the kick up for the air it seems to be working. The one thing that seem odd is, When I turn on the air the idle picks up to just a little over 900 rpms when the trans is in gear. When I put the trans in park the idle goes up to 1400 rpms.. Then when I shift it back into gear it again drops to 900 rpms.When I try to adjust the idle down from 1400 rpms out of gear it stalls when I put it back into gear.When the air is off and trans is in park the engine idles at 1000 rpms. When I shift it into gear it idles at 750 rpms.It seems the engine slows down quit a bit Went it is shifted into gear.It seems that the engine idle is affected quit a bit with the air, power steering, and electric fan are one at the same time.Roger
 

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I got my car back from the shop today. Well it is running better. It doesn't stall out When i give it some gas from the light, it doesn't stall. I reinstalled the kick up for the air it seems to be working. The one thing that seem odd is, When I turn on the air the idle picks up to just a little over 900 rpms when the trans is in gear. When I put the trans in park the idle goes up to 1400 rpms.. Then when I shift it back into gear it again drops to 900 rpms.When I try to adjust the idle down from 1400 rpms out of gear it stalls when I put it back into gear.When the air is off and trans is in park the engine idles at 1000 rpms. When I shift it into gear it idles at 750 rpms.It seems the engine slows down quit a bit Went it is shifted into gear.It seems that the engine idle is affected quit a bit with the air, power steering, and electric fan are one at the same time.Roger
one quick question, what is that AIR refres to, AC?
 

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I got my car back from the shop today. Well it is running better. It doesn't stall out When i give it some gas from the light, it doesn't stall. I reinstalled the kick up for the air it seems to be working. The one thing that seem odd is, When I turn on the air the idle picks up to just a little over 900 rpms when the trans is in gear. When I put the trans in park the idle goes up to 1400 rpms.. Then when I shift it back into gear it again drops to 900 rpms.When I try to adjust the idle down from 1400 rpms out of gear it stalls when I put it back into gear.When the air is off and trans is in park the engine idles at 1000 rpms. When I shift it into gear it idles at 750 rpms.It seems the engine slows down quit a bit Went it is shifted into gear.It seems that the engine idle is affected quit a bit with the air, power steering, and electric fan are one at the same time.Roger
If that air refers to the AC, there is a solenoid pusher device will be triggered when clutch engaged, the pusher will increase the RPM a little bit( for my car it will increase 750 rpm to 1100rpm).
There are two screw underneath the carb. They are the idle mixture screw which only control the rpm under someting like 900. Adjust them properly as your engine no longer stall, and idle at about 750-800 when not in gear no ac.

What spark plug u use, i have the same problem before i change my plug
 

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Discussion Starter #54
Yes AC means air conditioning.My carb is a 650 quick fuel carb. It has no choke , has four corner idle adjustment and has manual secondaries.From what I'm told it's a racing carb. I took it out today for a little test driving. With the ac off it ran pretty good. it responded to the throttle good , with no hesitation. If I come to a complete stop and floor the gas peddle it starts to miss and stall for a moment and then starts firing smooth. From that point it doesn't miss and winds up to 6400 rpms in a big hurry. When shifted to second gear it goes into the gear and pulls very hard with no stalling or missing. Third gear is the same. I shut it down at about 100mph.It gets the tires loose once the miss stops and spins the tires with every shift. It isn't spinning the tires for a long time. I am running a new set of Nitti 555 R radials.With the old B F Goodrich's It got no traction at all. Ran great all the way after the initial miss at the very start.It almost sounded like a motor when it hits its rev limiter. I know it's not hitting the rev limiter, but it sounds like it's breaking up the firing.It makes me think it's something to do in the timing.I checked the timing and it idles at 20 degrees advance and goes to 38 degrees advance at 3000 rpms.I was thinking to change the timing advance so I can get it down to 14 degrees advance at idle and advance to 38 degrees at 3000 rpms or over.I thought that it might get it to idle better. If I try to set the idle below 1100 rpms at idle, and put it into drive it drops to around 550 rpms and stalls. If it set at 1100 rpms it will idle in gear at around 750 rpms. It does bounce back and forth around 100 or so rpms.When I turn on the air conditioner it idles at 1400 rpms out of gear. When I shift it into drive the idle drops down to 900 rpms and stays running.I installed a kick up solenoid that activates when the AC is turned on and off once the AC is turned off. If I set the kick up to lower than 1400 rpms and put it in to drive the engine slows down and stalls. When it's in gear and idling at 900 rpms it idles pretty even . I can't help but believe it's in the timing or the ignition . It has a healthy cam . 533 - 544 lift 114 lobe separation 224/230 at .050 lift. I know it a cam designed for a blower or supercharger. It was in it when I bought the car.When I first bought the car it ran great with this cam.I do not feel like swapping out the cam now. I'm sure I could get a cam designed for this set up that would work better, but I just don't have the time or money for it right now.Roger
 

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Yes AC means air conditioning.My carb is a 650 quick fuel carb. It has no choke , has four corner idle adjustment and has manual secondaries.From what I'm told it's a racing carb. I took it out today for a little test driving. With the ac off it ran pretty good. it responded to the throttle good , with no hesitation. If I come to a complete stop and floor the gas peddle it starts to miss and stall for a moment and then starts firing smooth. From that point it doesn't miss and winds up to 6400 rpms in a big hurry. When shifted to second gear it goes into the gear and pulls very hard with no stalling or missing. Third gear is the same. I shut it down at about 100mph.It gets the tires loose once the miss stops and spins the tires with every shift. It isn't spinning the tires for a long time. I am running a new set of Nitti 555 R radials.With the old B F Goodrich's It got no traction at all. Ran great all the way after the initial miss at the very start.It almost sounded like a motor when it hits its rev limiter. I know it's not hitting the rev limiter, but it sounds like it's breaking up the firing.It makes me think it's something to do in the timing.I checked the timing and it idles at 20 degrees advance and goes to 38 degrees advance at 3000 rpms.I was thinking to change the timing advance so I can get it down to 14 degrees advance at idle and advance to 38 degrees at 3000 rpms or over.I thought that it might get it to idle better. If I try to set the idle below 1100 rpms at idle, and put it into drive it drops to around 550 rpms and stalls. If it set at 1100 rpms it will idle in gear at around 750 rpms. It does bounce back and forth around 100 or so rpms.When I turn on the air conditioner it idles at 1400 rpms out of gear. When I shift it into drive the idle drops down to 900 rpms and stays running.I installed a kick up solenoid that activates when the AC is turned on and off once the AC is turned off. If I set the kick up to lower than 1400 rpms and put it in to drive the engine slows down and stalls. When it's in gear and idling at 900 rpms it idles pretty even . I can't help but believe it's in the timing or the ignition . It has a healthy cam . 533 - 544 lift 114 lobe separation 224/230 at .050 lift. I know it a cam designed for a blower or supercharger. It was in it when I bought the car.When I first bought the car it ran great with this cam.I do not feel like swapping out the cam now. I'm sure I could get a cam designed for this set up that would work better, but I just don't have the time or money for it right now.Roger
In my opinion, if your carb dont have a choke of any kind. I really suggest you get a street carb if you want to mainly use it on street. The choke is pretty much an important part of the whole fueling system.
By your describing, i really concern about this carb you mentioned, because everything you mentioned about stall etc, i think they all related to the carb. Why dont u get a edlebrock or holley street carb to replace your current one?

I even plan on still keep using the stock MC 2150 carb, because it is so reliable and stable when come to street performance and street driving.
 

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Way to much cam for the street and especially an AC and the carb is a racing one. Much different then a street carb. It works, but barely.
 

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Discussion Starter #57
I think your both right. It looks like I have some winter projects coming up.Roger
 

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Discussion Starter #60
I played with the timing curve and tinkered with the carb adjustment . When I first got the car back it ran better. The timing at idle was 28 degrees and went up to 38 real fast. I switched out the black spacer to a green spacer in the MSD. It allowed me to get the timing to go down to 15 degrees at idle and advance to 38 degrees at over 3000 rpms.I kept changing the springs till I got the advance go to 15 degrees at idle and as the rpms increased the timing advanced til it went to 38 degrees at about 3000 rpms. Now the engine pulls strong from idle till 6400 rpms. No stalling at all. Before I did this and you stopped and floored it , it would act like it was running up on the rev limiter. Now it just goes no missing at all.I took it out on a road near here and tested it. First ran and pulled great,second worked great.Third pulled great up to close to 6000 rpms . I had to let off for traffic.My GPS was showing 103 mph.At 6400 rpms it should be close to 110 to 115.I don't think I want to put it into overdrive at that rpm. I don't think the trans would hold up .I am a happy camper. It idles a little faster that I would like , but it's working great even with the air conditioner on . Roger
 
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