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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Are all posi units the same ? there is a guy on ebay who is offering a ' Torque-lock" posi in his re-built 9" rear. are they all just "clutch type posi's with different names ? ALSO..... Has anyone had good experiences with ebay rearends or would you recommend an ebay seller ? What horse are you runnin' through yer complete 9" ebay posi ? I might be around 550 hp.will it live? thanks, Greg-
 

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Is it the guy from Valley Springs? If so I had him build me a 3rd member using my existing detroit locker.
As far as durability is concerned, that guy does have a HP rating for the "torque-locks". If your do any kind of racing I'd stay away from any clutch style unit.
 

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I e-mailed 2 ebay sellers a few weeks ago asking about the so called torque lock posi. From what I can gather, and I couldn't get a straight answer from either of them, it sounds like a homegrown cobbled together posi. More or less a 4 pin block, some shims, and friction discs. I wouldn't expect it to last very long. Plus, those friction discs are just gonna wear out the carrier which is just gonna cause problems when you go to rebuild it because only one tire is spinning. For 550 hp, I'd say a detroit locker and 31 spline axles are a minimum.
 

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If you drag race on a regular basis a Detriot Locker is a much better choice than a Traction Lock. The clutches in a Traction Lock won't stand up to too many burnouts before they burn up.
 

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Stay away from the torque lok.

I can run about 40-50 passes with a 600FWHP car and a factory posi.
But since I build them myself it costs me time and about $50 in clutches.
 

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No clutch type rearend is going to last with slicks and any power at all. All it takes is one burnout where a tire stops spinning and the clutches are toast.

A detroit locker is practically indestructible, and cheap if you find a used nascar locker on ebay.

The detroit locker in my car was one of the best investments I have made so far. It has been absolutely trouble free!

Greg
 

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Have to agree with the Trac-loc - if mostly street use.

Don't get me wrong, Detroit Locker is great for heavy-duty applications. As near to bulletproof, foolproof as you can get. There are some people that get one that is quiet, well-mannered and no doubt they are reliable.

Detroit lockers can be a little tricky to live with if you are not aware of what you are driving.

There are ways to throw a Trac-loc together and there are ways to build one right. You can build a trac-loc with a 2-pinion spider. But trac-loc will last, work much better with a 4-pinion, with correctly set clutches will live. Like any machine with wear surfaces (like transmission syncros, fiber bands in automatics they do wear over time. But, just like you don't need to replace bands on an automatic every two months or every year -neither should you have to do that with a trac-loc. So,. unless you put your foot in it all the time, especially if you make it work the differential - burning rubber around corners, not careful with correctly sized wheel/tire diameters on both rear axels, it will last a good long time.

There are trac-loc in 60's cars that have Never been rebuilt...40 years seems like someone got their money's worth.

If you know you are going to the track, alot, and are willing to deal with the features of a DL, then its a great heavy-duty option. Just like anything else that goes with making a car your personal vision of what a car should be...at some point, all the advice in the world can't make that decision for you when it comes time to put your money on the table. A little Civility is not such a bad thing. At one point I had to have the baddest car in town, now I'm happy to just have one that can runs good enough to keep from being an embarrasment.
 

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Beoweolf,

The guy says he has 550 HP. I am guessing he probably has at least 500 ft/lbs of torque.

Multiply that by the first gear ratio of approx 2.75, and you get 1,375 ft/lbs coming out of the tailshaft.

If he has a moderate rear gear ratio of 3.50:1, that 1,375 ft/lbs going into the differential gets turned into 4,812 ft/lbs.

I don't see how a 4" clutch pack with no application force other than interference between the spider gears is going to hold up to that amount of force for long.

Greg
 

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GregP,

I don't disagree with what anyone is saying, we are only offering opinions.

I know what you are saying...the numbers are correct, they may even be a little conservative ...if you factor in flashing the convertor and have a high stall, you would be in the middle of the torque curve! But the issue is traction or lack of it, that dictates longivity.

I stipulated, agreed, if a high degree of abuse in in the plan, then go with the Detroit locker. But I still don't think its an automatic choice.

Since you bring up numbers...think of this, 2 x 6 inches (front disc brakes) - 24 sq inches of brakes stop a 4000 lb car repeatedly for 30K - 50K miles. thats less than the area of a floor tile (144 sq inches). Those same pads could be worn out, during one track session of agressive driving - less than 50 miles. If the driver decides to install sintered iron brake pads, and still drive it on the street, is he willing, ready to warm up the pads - or put up with extended braking distance, much longer than even stock distance - until they are hot? So, we come back to making a decision of what the car is being used for.

Even though there are a lot of forces being run through a differential, thats what it was built to do.

Believe me, I am not disputing the value of a DL, I am merely saying that the applicaition should be taken into consideration. It is not always necessary to bring out the big hammer, evey time you need to drive a nail, just because you have one in the tool box..

When a person ask whether they "should" get a DL, I'm more prone to say think about what you are giving up as well as what you are getting. The guys that "know" they need a DL - There is usually no doubt about it.
 

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My buddy got one of those torque locks in a trade for a toploader on ebay. big mistake. Whoever said it was a homegrown unit was on the spot. We took the unit apart when it arrived. It basically was an open differential(ring gear bolts flush, not recessed) that was machined to accept clutch discs. There wasn't much left after the machining either. My friend ended up peg legging it on burnout with slicks after a few weeks.

Oh, forgot, it was a stock 89 roller 5.0 engine with a TF stage 2 cam, c-4 ina 66 Stang.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: latamud on 8/12/06 9:58am ]</font>
 

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My first TL (right over the counter back in '87) lasted 12 years with a nitroused 351C running 200+ passes at the track. No significant problems seen. I'm not in the 'have to have a DL' camp either.
When the TL is setup right it hangs in there.
 

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I put a 9 inch 4.11 Detroit Locker in my Falcon about 15 years ago to replace a worn out 3.89 Traction Loc. I bought the Traction Lok new from Currie and had it rebuilt once after that due to burned up clutches. The Falcon at the time was running 14's in the 1/4 with a very mild 351. Since installing the DT there have been no problems with the rear end whatsoever. 2 years ago I put some 3.70 gears and new clutches in the Traction Lok and installed the unit in the Falcon for some better street manners than the 4.11's. The TractionLok lasted 2 trips to the track, running low 12's with maybe 400HP, and less than 500 miles before the clutches burned out again. Needless to say the car has been running with the 4.11 DT ever since. So, that's real world experience not some he said this or that BS. Take it for what it's worth.

_________________
'58 Morris Minor 289 S/S MM
'62 Falcon 351W "Just Falcon Around"

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Just Jim on 8/12/06 10:40am ]</font>

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Just Jim on 8/12/06 10:42am ]</font>
 

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It's called piece of mind. I have blown up rears just like the rest of you guys. When you go to the track or are just playing on the street, so many things can break, why worry about breaking a rear. The Detroit Locker is just one of those things that you just don't think about breaking. I'm also not saying you have to have one, but if I can have one less thing to worry about, than that's a plus in my book. I can honestly say that the DT was the best investment per dollar ($650 for complete rebuilt NASCAR pumpkin on eBay) that I have on my car.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Im looking at a Strange catalog and the Strange Pro Iron looks like it will be the right one -i think- but i will have to upgrade to the Trach Tech locker, is this the same as a detriot locker ???
 

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Stolen from another site: dated 2001.

...First get your terminology correct. There is only one Detroit Locker. The other lockers you mention, are NOT Detroit Lockers!

The "Detroit Locker" is NOT a street friendly diff. The Reason: When the Detroit Locker is ratcheting, 100% of the TQ is applied to the locked wheel. The Un-locked wheel receives NO power while ratcheting.

The other "Lockers" you mention try to soften the square tooth engagement / disengagement of the traditional "Locker", by rounding off the leading edges of the gears. Or by using weak springs, which defeats the whole purpose of a differential spring....

My personal opinion is Not as direct in attitude as the quote I borrowed, but the quote makes a few valid points. #1, a detroit locker is a "Detroit Locker", its a brand name that describes a particular kind of differential locking configuration. If it don't say detriot locker, then it ain't.

As someone mentioned earlier in the thread, if you are going with the big dog - there are reasonably priced take-off on the net that are setup with premium, quality components by nacar mechanics - available at really decent prices. If you are looking to save money, that might be the way to go, rather than going with a new design that you are not sure of.

#2. anything less than a Detroit Locker needs to be evaulated on what it offers rather than if its as good as a Detroit Locker. If you want smoother engagment, require less mechanically audible driving-then look at your options.

A good thing to think about doing is to see if you can find some one that has a DL in his car....see if you can catch a "ride along" for a night out cruise or even parts run. That could give you an idea of what it drives like. Then compare that to a peg-leg and a trac-lock, if you can find one, the point is to do a little reseach before putting down the long green. Its a waste to put one in, then have to pull it out if its too much, not something you can live with long term or if you get a trac-loc and really wanted a DL. There are many differential designs that have all kinds of characteristic. Some have proven their strength on the track, drag strip or in use with heavy weight vehicles. No need to break new ground, if you are going down the same path as many have already blazed. All you need to do is decide what is import to you, after that the decision should be a little easier. Unless you want or need someone to make that decision for you? Nothing wrong with that either. You have heard a lot of good advice, opinions and war stories.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Beoweolf on 8/13/06 1:08am ]</font>
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
ok, how good are the Trach-Tech ? what principle do they employ and how do they compare to the Detroit locker ?
 

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I purchased one of those rebuilt 4.11 third member Torque-Lok posi units off ebay. Honestly I am quite pleased with it, especially for the price. It has been through several visually impressive burn outs and multiple beat sessions with no ill results. Here again the application is key, and I am not putting any where near 500 HP in front of it. If I was, I would absolutely pony up for the Detroit Locker no questions. I hope this helps.
 

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Glad you were able to come up with a solution you can live with. Its a big decision and can be confusing to the anyone.


just to muddy the water, now that you have made a decision. Detroit locker is owned by Eaton. There are several lockers sold under the Detroit locker name. Each has an application, although there is some overlap, they each have distinct features and niche markets. Makes good reading when you have nothing else to waste time on.




The legendary Detroit Locker began the revolution in performance differentials and still leads the industry today. The Detroit Locker is the most durable and dependable locking differential available.

The Detroit Locker maximizes traction by delivering 100% of the torque to both drive wheels. It is engineered to keep both wheels in a constant drive mode, and has the ability to automatically allow wheel speed differentiation when required.

The Detroit C-Locker is built for C-Clip style axles. The Detroit C-Locker functions with the same technology as the Detroit Locker. The manufacturer's standard C-Clips are used when a Detroit C-Locker is installed.

The Detroit SL Locker or SofLocker is a Detroit Locker with a twist. Accelerator adjustments (drive to coast) are made frequently during normal driving. The Detroit SofLocker makes noise when the drive member reengages the driven members during these adjustments. The Detroit SofLocker employs a pre-load spring pack to keep the drive and driven members engaged and dampens this noise. The pre-load does not affect the speed differentiation function when required while turning corners. The Detroit SofLocker provides the same performance of the Detropit Locker with reduced noise.

No other performance differential has the reputation for delivering traction in mud, snow, rocks and on the track. The choice of professional racers and off-road enthusiasts around the world! The durability of the Detroit Locker is unmatched!

Legendary Traction!

Detroit Locker
The Detroit Locker maximizes traction by delivering 100% of the torque to both drive wheels. It is engineered to keep both wheels in a constant drive mode, and has the ability to automatically allow wheel speed differentiation when required. Used by both professionals and enthusiasts. Applications are also available for C-Clip style axles.

Detroit Locker CTR
The innovative new design allows for deeper turn entries and higher exit speeds. The ability to stay on the gas longer into the turn and return to the pedal faster leaving the turn provides a huge advantage in racing conditions. Whether you’re running dirt, Late Model or Modified - Dominate your next race with a Detroit Locker CTR!

Dteroit Electrac
The Detroit Electrac functions as a heavy-duty limited-slip differential and as a driver-activated fully locked performance differential. A simple push of the dash mounted button and the Detroit Electrac becomes a locked differential. When activated, the unit provides maximum traction for off-road or high performance operation.

Detroit Truetrac
Detroit Truetrac is the only unit currently available to the aftermarket featuring a gear type limited slip design (no clutch or friction plates to wear out). Designed for medium duty 2 & 4 wheel drive applications, positive gear action provides quiet, automatic splitting of torque, without creating the steering problems associated with other available differentials.


http://www.detroitlocker.com/ProductsPage.htm
 
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