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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Get ready to start slamming together the new engine...want to step up the cam a bit though.
Some background.
393 stroker (scat 9000 crank, scat forged rods, wiseco forged pistons)
Dart pro-1 non cnc heads (ported, aprox 200ccs)
Vic Jr. intake
Proform carb (~750-800cfm)
1 3/4 longtubes
3500 stall edge convertor
3.73 gears
26 inch tires

Ran mid 11's with a Comp Magnum 270H cam 224 @ 50/.500 w 1.7 rockers, and a couple other "issues".

I have Comp 986 dual valvesprings that I want to stick with.

Was look at sticking with the same cam line and just moving up in size.
Magnum 292H (244 @ 50/.518 )?

Any other suggestions? (NO rollers or solids please...I know, I ruin all your fun)
Anyone run this cam?
I figure with as small as the old cam was...its gotta be WAY better.


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90 Mustang Coupe NA 387W C-4


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: tachrev351w on 9/22/06 11:52pm ]</font>

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: tachrev351w on 9/22/06 11:52pm ]</font>
 

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What is your compression ratio?....I ran that cam in my 306 and I liked it but it was probably too big for the combination I had.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
about 11.5:1
 

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The XE series of cams is much better than the old magnum grinds. At the same duration at .050, the newer XE lobes make more than a 20 HP improvement.I have also seen as much as a 20 HP improvement with just adding the Beehive springs an titanium retainers. JOE SHERMAN RACING
 

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I would consider the 294XE cam if you want to stay hydraulic.
As mentioned above, the XE cams outperform the old magnum grinds.
My 274XE cam is more aggressive than the 280 magnum.
 

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On 2006-09-23 04:16, tonys10sec306 wrote:
I would go with a soild cam myself
If I had to do it all over again...I would too.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Thanks for the suggestions.
Looking into solid rollers now....$$$$$.
I just know that hydro's work for me so far, so I was sticking with what I know.
Figured I could just stick with what I have and step it up a little.
I'll do a little more research on the subject.

So what cams would you suggest as far as solids and solid rollers go?
What do you gain by going solid...besides rpm?
And how often do you have to adjust yours (in your experience)?

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90 Mustang Coupe NA 387W C-4


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: tachrev351w on 9/24/06 1:03am ]</font>
 

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ya need more cam that that... i would go solid also.. oops i did.

more duration and a bit more lift even hyd. will help alot. IMHO
 

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On 2006-09-23 10:02, tachrev351w wrote:
Thanks for the suggestions.
Looking into solid rollers now....$$$$$.
I just know that hydro's work for me so far, so I was sticking with what I know.
Figured I could just stick with what I have and step it up a little.
I'll do a little more research on the subject.

So what cams would you suggest as far as solids and solid rollers go?
What do you gain by going solid...besides rpm?
And how often do you have to adjust yours (in your experience)?

_________________
90 Mustang Coupe NA 387W C-4


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: tachrev351w on 9/24/06 1:03am ]</font>

Make sure you seriously take the application into consideration if you're looking at solid rollers. They quickly get into stratospheric ramp rates and can be hell on valvesprings! That being said, I wouldn't build a motor with anything less than a solid cam, and preferably a solid roller =p.

There's a lot of cams out there...my advice as to specific grinds are to make some calls, talk to some cam help techs...and get an idea that way, or even better, save yourself a bunch of headache, and talk to one of the custom cam guys around here. Jay Allen springs to mind...though I've never used him myself.

I myself use solid rollers for a few reasons. For one, the tiny bit of maintenance needed versus a hydraulic is moot if you set it up correctly. Second, area under the lift is what makes horsepower and torque. I'm sure you know valves only spend a VERY short time at peak lift. They go up through the lift range...stop at the top, and come down through the same lift range. Hydraulic and flat tappet cams by necessity have a much more gentle ramp rate than solid/solid roller cams. What this means is that the valve, on a hydraulic cam MUST spend more of the rated duration ramping up to peak lift. A solid/solid roller cam accelerates the valves MUCH more quickly to the higher end of the lift range...keeps it there longer, then drops it faster. This gives you a lot more time for air/fuel to get into the chamber. That of course, makes power. One thing to remember though. IF you do decide solid roller, you must address low speed oiling if you intend to drive it very often...or even occasionally on the street. Whether you use the new style roller lifters that have oiling holes to the roller, or you groove the block to add oiling to the roller, something has to be done or you'll grenade lifters eventually. That's messy =).

Hope this helped, and sorry for the novel.

Cris
 

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You can get a BIG HP gain with a solid or a solid roller grind. You need a 260--270 at .050, on a 106 CL. A roller like that would be worth 50 to 60 HP. A solid a little less(30 to 40)You will need lower rear end gears but it would be aq major pickup. 4 or 5 trenths, 4 MPHJOE SHERMAN RACING
 

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I love hearing what Joe adds to these discussions! Nothing speaks as loud as his actual experience with building racing engines. You can only THINK yourself so far when making horsepower. Joe seems to go to great lengths to actually TEST everything and see what actually works and what doesn't. His experience is a GOLDEN asset for all to draw from.

That being said.... What is the ACTUAL APPLICATION of this car? Is it a street car that sometimes hits the track... or is it a drag car that sometimes hits the street? How many miles do you want to put on this engine between freshen-ups and rebuilds? These are all valid questions when it comes to choosing a camshaft you can live with.

Big solid rollers use incredibly steep ramps that yank the valve off the seat and drop it back down pretty hard. These sorts of cams will pound out a valve job much more quickly than a 'street' cam. The incredible spring pressures required to control them are also VERY hard on lifters and rockers... so they need checked, rebuilt and replaced every so often, or they can come apart and cause major problems.

Cams with tons of duration and tight lobe seperations are a PITA on the street. They get horrible mileage, the exhaust stinks to high heaven, and they don't have much low end power. Hence, they need for steep gears and loose 8" converters that are a PITA on the street. They can also cost around $800 for a good one.

If it's a drag car that you are trying to make go as fast as possible, do what Joe says, and install a big, solid roller. Just be prepared for their downsides... including extra teardowns and maintenance. Plus, for regular street duty, you'll want to buy the best lifters you can find. I believe Comps are called the 'Endurex'. These have tiny holes that pressure oil the rollers and aren't cheap. The cams aren't either. BUT, Comp does offer some Xtreme Energy Solid Roller Lobes designed for hot 'street' cars. These have an aggressive opening ramp, combined with a softer closing ramp to prolong your valve job and make less noise. They are also designed to work with tighter valve lashes, which will also make things easier on the valvetrain. I'd definitely look into them (along with the good lifters) if you are seriously considering a solid roller.

Of course, with the money it would take to upgrade to a good solid roller, lifters, springs, etc.... you could sell your current heads, and replace them with some AFR 205's... and a decent flat tapped solid or hydraulic with the right specs... and make more power with more reliably.

Good Luck!
 

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Your best bet (if you don't want to change your entire combo around and spend a BUNCH of money) is to simply install a better matching flat tappet camshaft in your existing combination.

If you do much street duty, you'll probably want to stick with something around 236-245 @ 0.050" on the intake, maybe a little more on the exhaust. I also like solids. Make sure to use matching valve springs. The Xtreme Energy lobes Joe Sherman listed are more aggressive than the Magnum you listed, so you might shoot for something of similar @ 0.050" duration in the Etreme line.

Comp also has SOLID Flat Tappet Xtreme Energy Lobes. You'll have to call them up and have a custom grind done, but those are some pretty sweet, modern solid flat tappet designs.


Here is a master list of all of Comp's readily available lobes. You can scroll your way down to the Xtreme energy SOLIDS to see their specs.

http://www.compcams.com/Technical/Catalogs/LC2005/2005LobeCatalog.pdf

This will give you the best 'Bang for the Buck' anyway.

If you want a more professional opinion, you could always call one of the 'experts' like Jay at http://www.camshaftinnovations.com

Whatever you do, be sure to be careful and take ALL precautions with break-in if you go flat tappet. (lifters spin freely, oil additive, softer springs for the first while, etc)

Good Luck!
 

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I LIKE the extream street rollers very much. You still need to have a custom grind to get the tighter lobe centers, but the cost is the same. I did an engine with a street roller about a month ago. 347- 10.5 to one. Rpm. 750 Holley. 514 Hp at 6500. sounds real good, Drives real nice. JOE SHERMAN RACING
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
The extreme line sound like a much better way to go.
At this point, I think a hyd. flat tappet is still what I am going to stick with.
A solid roller sounds like to much hassle for what I am doing with the car. I don't want ot have to do periodic teardowns and lifter replacement.
The retro-fit kits don't appeal to me either, with a small base circle and the need to tap the block and install a spider.
Link bar lifters are just out of the budget at this point anyway.
I also don't really want to go with any more gear than I currently have.
So...that being said.

It looks like the XE284 will work with my current springs, and is WAY hotter than my current cam, and has more lift and a better design than the 292H I picked previously.

240/246 duration at .050
.541/.544 lift
.575/.578 lift with my 1.7 rockers

The car does see a decent amount of street duty, but my limits of streetability are a little more flexible then some.
This cams looks like it would fit that without absolutely destroying my budget.
 

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Personally, I like solid lifters... and Comp has Xtreme Energy solid lifter lobes.... but that cam will better match the rest of the combo.

To get an Xtreme Energy solid for a SBF, you will probably need to call Comp and have it custom ground... but they can do it for you.

Good Luck!
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Yea...I noticed I didn't see flat solids listed anywhere, including in the Comp catalog as an OTS grind...only solid rollers.
I thought that was a little odd.

So none of the durability problems with flat solids? How often do you have to adjust the valves?
 

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Adjust the valves once or twice a year with a 'street' level grind like that as long as you are using rocker nuts with the allen head set screw.... (which most of them come with) Other than that, no additional maintenance.

Be sure to get suitable valve springs whichever way you go. Call Comp, and they will set you up.

Good Luck!
 
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