Not getting any gas at all - Ford Muscle Forums : Ford Muscle Cars Tech Forum
 
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post #1 of 13 (permalink) Old 08-06-2012, 06:46 AM Thread Starter
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Not getting any gas at all

I had this problem intermittently for a while. I could wait a couple or 3 minutes and it would crank back up. It is dead now. I thought it might be the little Purolator fuel pump I had installed at the front so I built a bracket for the pump, bought a new pump(same kind)and relocated it back to the gas tank. I was told that these little pumps are pusher pumps but not really good at pulling.

It didn't help. I can hear a gurgling noise in the end of the hose up at the carb. I thought it might be the new pump was bad so I put the old one back on in the back. Didn't help and had the same gurgling noise. These are not supposed to require priming but I decided to prime it anyway. It ran all the gas out that I had primed into the hose and then the engine shut off.

I put my air on the gas filler nozzle with a cloth wrapped around it and it pushes gas out the pick up and out the short rubber hose that goes into the fuel tank.

The only thing I can think of is that the rubber hose is cracked and leaking air so the pump can't pull. Unfortunately, to replace that requires me to lower the gas tank because I can't get to it.

Anybody had this or have any thoughts on this?

1965 289 mustang fastback
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post #2 of 13 (permalink) Old 08-06-2012, 06:57 AM
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Post Re: Not getting any gas at all

Have you put a fuel pressure/volume gauge on the car? That will tell you if there is a problem or not. If it won't pump, think either a defective hose (before electric pump) or a bad tank vent (or tank filter 9A011) (or trash in the tank/lines).

The pump is designed to push, not pull. It should be mounted below the tank as to have a gravity feed (again, it is not designed to pull).

When you drop the tank, inspect inside carefully. It may have to be flushed out (radiator shop).

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The above posted information is in my opinion only. It may contain copy and paste material(s). Your opinion(s) and mileage may vary.
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post #3 of 13 (permalink) Old 08-06-2012, 10:41 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Not getting any gas at all

I have the tank clear and sitting on jack stands under the truck. Dropping gas tanks is a pain in the arse.

I have a big frame mount trailer hitch which I had to remove first because it spans across the tank.

I blew into the pick up hose and something inside the tank sort of gave way/popped and then I got a mouth and face full of gas, LOL. Did I mention this is a pain in the arse? It looks like the hose is rotted and I have grasshoppers, crickets, black stuff ... in the gas tank.

1965 289 mustang fastback

Last edited by Hottarod; 08-06-2012 at 10:45 AM.
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post #4 of 13 (permalink) Old 08-06-2012, 10:43 AM
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Post Re: Not getting any gas at all

Did you drain the fuel first? If no, make sure it is fairly fresh and does not smell like varnish...

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post #5 of 13 (permalink) Old 08-06-2012, 11:05 AM
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Re: Not getting any gas at all

Fuel Pumps and peoples Opinions.....

A fuel pump CANNOT pull MORE psi that it can Push.

That said, There is nowhere in a fuel system that is a "GOOD" place to put a fuel pump. Period.

A normal electric fuel pump that pushes 5 psi can PULL 5 psi. and a 20 psi pump can pull 20 psi.... See what I mean? it's the Carter (spinning long tube round stand up) styles that I've experienced that can push out 40 psi on one side but not pull more than 10 psi on the inlet Which is why they reside in the fuel it's self, plus the fuel prolongs their life by keeping the motor cool.

Just sayin is all.... Folks get paranoid about where people put these little helper fuel pumps for use on Carbureted engines.
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post #6 of 13 (permalink) Old 08-06-2012, 05:01 PM
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Post Re: Not getting any gas at all

Using an electric fuel pump as a puller (not designed for) will give the same problem(s) as a puller mechanical pump, vapor lock and/or fuel blend separation. That is why if installed outside of the tank, it needs to be gravity fed. An in tank pump of course is the best way but expensive for retrofit.

Of course, it would be best to mount the external pump in an airstream and/or use a cooler.

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post #7 of 13 (permalink) Old 08-06-2012, 06:53 PM
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Re: Not getting any gas at all

You're wrong....

You would have to have to have 50 FEET os 3/8" fuel line to make more than 2 lbs of weight behind that fuel pump


There is NO WAY that the position of the electric fuel pump is anything less than an excuse for a crap design.

Suction = weight X volume and some other mathematical bull schitt. But the push versus pull statements are duuuuuuuuuuh wrong.

Test my theory and move along boys.
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post #8 of 13 (permalink) Old 08-06-2012, 07:35 PM
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Question Re: Not getting any gas at all

You feel that I am wrong and that is your prerogative. I know I am right.

But it is not worth fighting over. Let the reader decide.

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post #9 of 13 (permalink) Old 08-06-2012, 08:07 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Not getting any gas at all

The little Purolator pump worked fine mounted on the frame rail on the driver side down by where the fuel line stops. I ran it that way for 6 years. It was pulling about the length of the truck less 2 feet and pushing the 2 feet over to the carb but not really. I always had a very healthy flow of fuel to the pump from gravity feed from the fuel tank until recently.

I'm fairly certain I have a cracked fuel hose coming from the tank pick up so the fuel pump is sucking air. I also have crud down around the sock inside the tank stopping up the line so it has to come out to be flushed out.

1965 289 mustang fastback
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post #10 of 13 (permalink) Old 08-06-2012, 08:18 PM
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Thumbs up Re: Not getting any gas at all

Replace the in-tank filter while you have it out.

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post #11 of 13 (permalink) Old 08-08-2012, 06:27 AM
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Re: Not getting any gas at all



This would indicate to me the pump does not draw & it is gravity fed. It will push though. Should the pressure exceed what it is designed to do (limited by the relief valve it simply recycles the excess back into the input chamber. If it were of draw/push design it would not be able to recycle this as input pressure vs. output pressure would be the same. In other words the relief valve would do absolutely nothing. It would not be able to open as the force attempting to open it would equal the force holding it closed.

A mechanical diaphragm pump however will pull but you almost always find them in a gravity feed configuration as well.
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post #12 of 13 (permalink) Old 08-08-2012, 06:48 AM
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Thumbs up Re: Not getting any gas at all

Quote:
Originally Posted by elgemcdlf View Post


This would indicate to me the pump does not draw & it is gravity fed. It will push though. Should the pressure exceed what it is designed to do (limited by the relief valve it simply recycles the excess back into the input chamber. If it were of draw/push design it would not be able to recycle this as input pressure vs. output pressure would be the same. In other words the relief valve would do absolutely nothing. It would not be able to open as the force attempting to open it would equal the force holding it closed.

A mechanical diaphragm pump however will pull but you almost always find them in a gravity feed configuration as well.
Correct. The pump type the original poster used would be best used as a primer pump if he experienced fuel bowl evaporation after shutdown or frequent vapor lock/blend separation periods. You would prime the system and then cut it off then using only the mechanical pump.

The pump you show is a low pressure (carb) model that does not require a pressure regulator. Of course for hot street/race, you would want a HI-FLOW model with a regulator.

Simply put, an electric pump will draw but you are defeating the benefits that can be gained as a pusher. The pump will overheat and subject the fuel system to vapor lock/blend separation that it was designed to correct.

The better system would be an in-tank pump submerged in the fuel. A second best would be a low pressure pump in the tank (transfer pump) suppling volume to a rail mounted pump that would then supply pressure/volume to the carb(s). An even better system would use a return line after the regulator to keep a constant supply (volume) of fuel and it (fuel) will also be cooled by circulating back into and out of the tank.

Mechanical pumps are old tech.

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post #13 of 13 (permalink) Old 08-08-2012, 03:17 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Not getting any gas at all

I don't see any junk in the tank and the sock looks fine but I guess I should replace it. It is not dried out, rotted, cracked or anything else I can see.

I still need to do some more looking in the tank to be sure but I don't even see a spec of rust. I guess it was all in the fuel hose from the pick up. It was all rotted and cracked and just about came apart in pieces in my hand.

I could have just thrown a new hose on it and said good enough
BUT NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO not me oh no never.

I had to wire brush and scotchbrite the whole tank clean and I need to coat it with something now. I'm also going to replace the filler and breather hoses, re-paint the tank straps and re-paint my trailer hitch. That is how you turn a 1 day project into 4 days yep.

Better to know what the inside of my gas tank looks like though.

1965 289 mustang fastback
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