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post #1 of 13 (permalink) Old 02-22-2014, 09:53 PM Thread Starter
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Question about issues I am having

So last year around this time I decided to put a new motor in my f150 and while it was tore down decided to change cam and lifters rocker arms and make it gear drive timing. The motor is a 302 not sure of the year it had rebuilt previously by a different owner. After everything was installed and I fired it up it ran weird. idle surged and ran rich. the cam was quite a bit bigger than stock and I also kept factory fuel injection. Im curious as in to what could possibly be causing this to run the way it does. I am not the greatest in diagnosing problems all I know is how to take stuff apart and put it back together. If anyone can help it would be greatly appreciated.
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post #2 of 13 (permalink) Old 02-23-2014, 10:11 AM
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Re: Question about issues I am having

I assume this is on a 1990 F-150? Like any engine, if you change parts that affect how it runs (like a bigger cam), it must be re-tuned. Unless you have done that, I would imagine that is your issue.

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post #3 of 13 (permalink) Old 02-24-2014, 07:28 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Question about issues I am having

Thats what I was told by my cousin. I just wanted to have someone else clarify that. A lot of guys on another forum tried dragging me around with tps voltage and iac voltage and blah blah blah. And didn't get anywhere. I made my mind up that I will just throw a carb on it and solve my problem. Thanks a lot for the advice.
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post #4 of 13 (permalink) Old 02-24-2014, 07:44 AM
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Re: Question about issues I am having

This has only happened twice to me, but may be worth a shot

I had two EEC-IV controlled stock rebuilds that ran HORRIBLE after I dropped them back in. In both cases, the first one after days of troubleshooting, the second one after minutes LOL

Do you have anyone that can do a hard erase of the codes? I never had a good reason why, but in both cases I went into my scanner and did what my Snap-on brick called a "hard erase" and they both started and idled like there was never anything wrong

In my experience, you can put quite a bit of cam in these before it gets crazy. Matter of fact if you had your cam specs we may be able to see if it really is too much. FWIW, you should be able to unhook the IAC and have it idle, if it doesn't you may need to open the TB a little and reset the TPS

However,try the reset first, I HATE that I never could explain why, but in both cases it was good running car drives in, I rebuild the motor and drop it back in, bad running motor LOL reset and drive away

70 Sportsroof, 427 FE/489 cid, TKO-600, 31 spline 4.10, A/C. modified Mass-flo EFI/reprogrammed A9L/CnC ported Victor.
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post #5 of 13 (permalink) Old 02-24-2014, 08:20 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Question about issues I am having

Well the cam has
.498 lift int./ex
And .282 duration
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post #6 of 13 (permalink) Old 02-24-2014, 09:02 AM
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Re: Question about issues I am having

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Originally Posted by 90f150 View Post
Well the cam has
.498 lift int./ex
And .282 duration
So a 282 advertised duration could very well require a reset of the base idle, in addition, it may like slightly more idle timing.

Two questions

1 - Did you set idle timing to 10 degrees with the SPOUT unhooked? It should result in approx 20 initial at idle with the SPOUT connected, but the proper way to set it is SPOUT disconnected

2 - Do you know the lobe separation and intake centerline of the cam? A cam part number would be even better.

However, if you are going carb and don't care, let me know and I will leave you alone

70 Sportsroof, 427 FE/489 cid, TKO-600, 31 spline 4.10, A/C. modified Mass-flo EFI/reprogrammed A9L/CnC ported Victor.
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post #7 of 13 (permalink) Old 02-25-2014, 02:25 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Question about issues I am having

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Originally Posted by My427stang View Post
So a 282 advertised duration could very well require a reset of the base idle, in addition, it may like slightly more idle timing.

Two questions

1 - Did you set idle timing to 10 degrees with the SPOUT unhooked? It should result in approx 20 initial at idle with the SPOUT connected, but the proper way to set it is SPOUT disconnected

2 - Do you know the lobe separation and intake centerline of the cam? A cam part number would be even better.

However, if you are going carb and don't care, let me know and I will leave you alone
Well I had everything typed out good but I got timed out part number is E-1800-P on elgin. What do you mean by spout? and timing was kinda set by ear.
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post #8 of 13 (permalink) Old 02-25-2014, 04:07 PM
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Re: Question about issues I am having

SPOUT is the SPark OUT connector. Dont hold me to this, but its a single wire connector near the distributor coming out of the TFI module (kinda t-shaped box on the side of the distributor. I believe it has something to do with the timing advance, so it needs to be disconnected to set the base timing for it to be "correct." Guys correct me if i'm wrong, its been a looong time since I've played with EEC-IV.

you could go here for a way to retrieve DTC's without a snap-on brick or similar:

http://www.troublecodes.net/ford/

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Last edited by 65StangMike; 02-25-2014 at 04:14 PM.
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post #9 of 13 (permalink) Old 02-25-2014, 04:17 PM
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Re: Question about issues I am having

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Originally Posted by 65StangMike View Post
SPOUT is the SPark OUT connector. Dont hold me to this, but its a single wire connector near the distributor coming out of the TFI module (kinda t-shaped box on the side of the distributor. I believe it has something to do with the timing advance, so it needs to be disconnected to set the base timing for it to be "correct." Guys correct me if i'm wrong, its been a looong time since I've played with EEC-IV.

you could go here for a way to retrieve DTC's without a snap-on brick or similar:

Ford OBD Trouble Codes –
Bingo.....

OK, on Ford EFI there is base timing setting (no computer) and what the engine sees at idle with the computer.

I can't be sure you screwed up, but it is very likely.

You need to find the SPOUT connector, it disconnects the timing control from the computer. Then you fire the motor and set it at 10 BTDC with a light. Then you plug it back in and the computer adds at least 10 degrees, sometimes more and will really fix an idle issue.

Recommend you try that first, could save you some money and time.

After that, if you have played with idle settings, you may have to go undo what you did.

Two places the SPOUT can be, right near the distributor (common on cars) or on the fender near the drivers side hood hings (common on trucks)

Here is one style




Here is another



In the first style, you pull the SPOUT shunt and put it in your pocket and set the timing, in the second one, you just unhook the wire black plug, set the timing, then hook it back up

70 Sportsroof, 427 FE/489 cid, TKO-600, 31 spline 4.10, A/C. modified Mass-flo EFI/reprogrammed A9L/CnC ported Victor.

Last edited by My427stang; 02-25-2014 at 04:25 PM.
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post #10 of 13 (permalink) Old 02-25-2014, 04:22 PM
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Re: Question about issues I am having

Basically it does the same thing as disconnecting the vacuum advance unit on something older, just does it electronically.

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post #11 of 13 (permalink) Old 02-25-2014, 04:28 PM
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Re: Question about issues I am having

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Originally Posted by 65StangMike View Post
Basically it does the same thing as disconnecting the vacuum advance unit on something older, just does it electronically.
I am sure you are simplifying for him, its more than that, there is ZERO advance in the distributor, unhooked it stays at whatever you set it with the light regardless of rpm.

The reason its needed is for two things, the EEC computer needs that specific position of a shutter wheel in the distributor to fire the injectors at the proper time, especially at idle and second it sets a base timing.

However it is much more than vac advance, the motor will have absolutely no advance without it connected

70 Sportsroof, 427 FE/489 cid, TKO-600, 31 spline 4.10, A/C. modified Mass-flo EFI/reprogrammed A9L/CnC ported Victor.

Last edited by My427stang; 02-25-2014 at 05:20 PM.
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post #12 of 13 (permalink) Old 02-25-2014, 04:31 PM
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Re: Question about issues I am having

Yes thats true. I was trying to speak in the most basic of terms...haha a little too basic. =)

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post #13 of 13 (permalink) Old 02-26-2014, 05:50 AM
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Re: Question about issues I am having

BTW that Elgin cam is slightly tight on lobe separation (110) but it's not enough to make that motor run badly in my experience.

If you haven't taken it apart yet, I'd seriously consider the following, won't cost you anything

- Reset the base timing to 10 degrees using a timing light with the spout out and reinstall spout after
- Scan for codes to make sure there aren't any electronic problems
- Do a hard reset
- Check idle voltage at the TPS if its correct, ignore it

Drive off into the sunset

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