I understand what you want to do, but the simple matter of fact is the Beehives will out perform any other spring. And they will take .600 lift at the valve. I cannot stress enough how good these spring setups are. And they are not that hard to install. What rpm you plan on running is what will dictate which spring you'll use. The 2 smaller springs can be located with comps locater, and probably +.050 keepers. The 26120 is the bigger spring, and we use a cutter to make a spring locater in the head and use a small shim under it. Either way, even though the heads have to come off, you are UPGRADING the potential of your engine greatly. One very nice thing about these springs is the ability to control the valve, you get less hammering of the seats, valve life is greatly extended, virtually everything in the valve train lasts longer and in "happier" with this setup. You can actually hear the difference at high rpm...its that noticeable!
Brian

 

My AFR 205 heads came with the #8015 spring package. (It was subbed for the standard 205 springs).

It has the specs that were recommended by Buddy Rawls who did the cam for me (lift is around .585 or so on my cam).

Check the AFR website for the exact specs on the #8015. I don't have them at hand.

 

The Comp beehive springs might be the trick of the moment but the cost of the springs,retainers, keepers and seats gets quite expensive. I do not want to take the heads off to do any machine work either.

I called and talked to the tech guy at AFR who told me they don't have a spring upgrade for the standard springs that doesn't require machining of the heads.He basically told me good luck finding any but Ed Curtis might have a setup.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Just Jim on 9/2/05 4:50am ]</font>

 

I went to the US Air Force Museum in Dayton, Ohio last week. They had a vintage airplane from the 1920's on display, possibly a French design, that had beehive springs.

Frank

 

Can't you simply measure the spring height an diameter, and look through the spring specs of the various manufacturers until you find one that fits your requirements?

 

Been there, done that. Your outta luck finding a spring that will (1) install at 1.800, (2) has a 1.440 outer spring diameter, (3) give you about 130#s at inst. height, and (4) not get you to flirt with a coil bind disaster much above 550 lift. If they tell you they do, go running the other direction. AFR must receive about 10,000 calls a day just like yours (and mine about a year ago) and I believe that if it existed, they would have found a way to make another buck selling you those springs.

Other than the beehive possibility, your in for some machine work. I called Comp on the beehives and to the best of my recollection, it was an expensive transition.

Your in good company if it comes as any consolation, because I did the same as you, bought the heads (without the valve & spring upgrade) thinking I would not go over 550 lift. Now that I want to fudge a little, I'm stuck or something that rhymes with stucked, unless I want to shell out the bucks.

 

I sell comp, and the smaller beehive spring, retainer, cup and locks are about $315. If you sold your setup for say $100. then you'd only have 215. invested. If you knew how good these springs work you would buy 2 sets! Just kidding...look at it this way, if performance is what your after, this is a performance advantage, just like lightweight pistons, or light rods...and honestly a good set of springs alone would cost around 115. so your only talking 100 more if you can sell your current setup. I would seriously consider it...and you dont have to buy from me. I just hate to see someone at a crossroads choose the dead end.
Brian

 

I have found some TFS dual springs which install at the original AFR installed height of 1.80,allow for .600 lift and if the specs are correct will work with the existing retainers/keepers.After UPS delivers the springs from Summit I'll know for sure if they will work.Still seems strange that AFR used such odd ball sized springs that can't be replaced by readily available springs from Comp,Isky,Crane,Crower,etc.

 

You guys just havnt been looking in all the right places


Holley springs that come standard on the holley sytemax heads...

1.78 installed height .600 max lift and 132lbs pressure.

1.437 diameter

5 second 1/8 mile

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: fogged408w on 9/2/05 12:04pm ]</font>

 

The only Holley springs I'm used to are the ones for a 3310 vacuum secondary carb not cylinder heads so they weren't checked out. The Holley spring installed height and seat pressure sounds about right but if the inner spring I.D. is too small it won't work with the AFR 10 degree retainers.That's the problem with Comp #987 springs.Is there a place to check the actual specs of the springs?

 

I just got back from the track and with the 26918's (comp beehive springs) I picked up 1.5 mph in the 1/4.

If you look, you can find the 26918 on ebay for about $140 (look for some LS1 guy who's selling his stuff). You can buy the retainers (787-16) for about $55. The seats (4705-16) will cost you about $35, the +.050" crane locks (99095-1) will cost about $30. Total is about $260.

Buy a valve spring height mic from ebay (about $45) and you should have about 1.79 to `1.81" installed height with the above parts.

So far, it seems these springs are living up to the hype. My valve train lost 23 grams (37 vs 14) and I saw the proof in the mph increase.

If you run anything other than a bad ass solid roller cam, it seems the beehives are the way to go. Now if I start dropping valves, I'll be sure to give you all a heads up!

Gerald

 

Well, it's all coming back to me now...(old age setting in)...the reason why the beehive thing is a no go is because of the extra expense of buying new valves on top of the cost of the springs, etc...

For those of us that did not get the valve and spring upgrade, our valves are too short for the beehives. They install @ 1.880 and ours are set up at 1.800. There are not enough shims to back up .080 so you either have to cut the spring pockets or buy longer valves...and so it became a never mind deal...

 

For those of us that did not get the valve and spring upgrade, our valves are too short for the beehives. They install @ 1.880 and ours are set up at 1.800. There are not enough shims to back up .080 so you either have to cut the spring pockets or buy longer valves...and so it became a never mind deal...

The beehives install at 1.800" I would have got some, but mine are around 1.900".

 

The different models of the beehives install at different heights.

The 26918 and 26915 install at 1.800". These are about 1.25" at the base of the springs.

The 26120 install at 1.880". These are 1.44" in diameter at the base.

Has anyone else tried these and gotten some noticeable results (good or bad)?

 

Yeah,

That's it. the 26120 installed too high and Comp's concern with the 26918 was the ID of the spring @ .660...on top of that was it was like pulling teeth to get the guy to talk to me.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: 63SportsCoupe on 9/8/05 8:40am ]</font>

 

I still think the beehive springs are too expensive for my budget. Boullestergm (Gerald) did gain 1.5MPH in the 1/4 using them but I think he exceeded the RPM limits of the original AFR springs and a good dual spring upgrade would probably had the same results.

My AFR185 heads now have the TFS springs installed without the inner springs which will be installed after the cam break-in.The original AFR springs were all over the map with installed heights ranging from 1.70 to 1.815.With some adjustments the new TFS springs are set at the recommended 1.78 to 1.79. The cost of the springs ,spring height gage,shims and a new valve spring compressor is still running way under $200.

 

Good for you Jim. What is your expected shift point? As I mentioned in our PM, I am running a Hyd. Roller (vs. your Solid) and the top # looked a little on the high side for my particular set-up.


Fogged408, Do you know what the top # is for the Holley Springs and/or know if that particular head is set up for a Hyd. Roller?

 

Until the car is run with the new solid cam I can't determine the shift point. 6500 max is my limit. The XE284H cam being replaced with the solid likes 6000RPM shifts which may be due to the soft original AFR springs. The TFS springs are supposed to be good for a hydro roller and are very similar to Comp #987 springs which are recommended by Comp for a XE282HR cam in a 5.0.

 

You were right on about the 26918s installing @ 1.800.

My bad

Got one question, with the smaller retainer, did you run into a problem with the heighth mic?

 

Jim, here is the 1.3 cam break-in rockers I told you about on a different thread. These rockers let you keep the dual heavy springs on the heads without having too much pressure on the cam/lifters during break-in. I have a set and have used them several times using close to solid roller spring pressures on solid flat tappet cams and I've let friend break in their cams using my rockers too. Maybe a bit pricy initially at $200 but you will never need to remove the inner springs to break in the cam again plus you can put these rockers on if you want to drive for extended periods on the street with a nasty solid cam. The rockers are top quality able to be used as primary rockers and raced with if you wanted to. I thought you might like to know as I was impressed with the quality and how well they work by not having to remove the springs for break in and reinstall after. Sure does save a lot of work

http://www.speedwaymotors.com/xq/aspx/paging.yes/dept_id.129/display_id.3191/qx/Product.htm